Tantra, Gurus & Healthy Spirituality

In this hilarious and enlightening interview Cody starts off by asking David about tantra, and they dive right into sacred sexuality, gurus & spirituality.

Transcript

You have an entire universe inside yourself.

It's infinite.

It's incredible.

It's creative.

It's dynamic and it's alive.

Welcome to Energy Matters,

Exploring awakening to your authentic self and finding purpose through mind,

Body and soul.

With your hosts,

Cody Edner and David Gandleman.

Brought to you by intuitivevision.

Net and groundedmind.

Com.

Hello and welcome to Energy Matters.

Today we get a chance to spend some time getting to know my cohost David Gandleman a little bit better.

I get to interview him.

So he's kind of in the hot seat,

Get a chance to chat with him and share a little bit about his spiritual travels and experiences,

His practice and meditation.

And we're gonna jump right into the middle of a conversation.

We were chatting about different spiritual practices and we kind of got off on tantra and I asked David if he'd ever been to a tantric retreat and got an enthusiastic and resounding yes.

And we're gonna jump in right there.

I actually have,

So that might explain it.

Oh,

Have you?

Yes.

Really?

Where?

In India?

In Thailand,

Actually.

I was,

It's a great place to start this podcast.

Tantra class.

I was sitting at this cafe in Thailand in the mountains,

I was maybe 23.

And this woman sat next to me and she goes,

Hey,

I'm Tony,

I'm a tantra teacher.

I was like,

Whoa,

Hey,

Nice to meet you.

I love tantra teachers.

I've always wanted to try that.

And it turned out to be a woman named Tony DiMarco.

And she was one of the first ever supermodels.

She was on the cover of like Cosmopolitan and she did films with Robert Redford and she had a show on sexuality.

When she was older,

She did yoga videos,

Partner yoga.

And she was just this mid-60s seasoned woman who had done it all.

She had partied with Mick Jagger.

She had done it all.

And she had come to a place of really working on the spiritual end of sexuality,

Going from the very shallow end of being a model and just being like an object to teaching people how to really connect in with their spirituality sexually.

And she happened to be in the same little town in Thailand.

And she asked me if I wanted to come take her retreat.

And it was starting the next week and it was donation-based.

And me and my girlfriend at the time from New Zealand were like,

Yeah,

Hell yeah,

We wanna do it.

So we spent five days with her learning and it was life-changing,

Cody.

Until this day,

Nothing has affected my sexuality and my understanding of that whole realm of energy around sex more than that week with Tony DiMarco.

And the first few days were nothing but emotional,

Kind of emotional,

What was it called?

A non-violent communication.

So you sit across from your partner and for example,

I would say something and when you behave this way,

It makes me feel like this.

And I would hope that you would behave like this.

And then my partner would have to repeat the exact words.

She couldn't say anything different.

So you gain like a level of empathy.

And then days three,

Four and five,

We went more into the sexual part of it.

And it was really,

Really life-changing.

Yeah,

She had that woman in one week.

So if you've never done a tantra retreat,

I highly recommend it.

Finding a good teacher is a little difficult,

But.

Yeah,

And in that tantra experience,

Beyond the body,

I mean,

It sounds like you're moving beyond just the sense,

Sensations and the impulses of the body,

Really getting into the matter of like the energy of those types of encounters.

Was there tools or a focus or communication about the energy aspect of connecting with someone that deeply and sharing that level?

Absolutely.

So first you have to get through the emotional level with the person.

So if you're gonna go into a spiritual space sexually with someone,

I mean,

You have to first have really great emotional communication.

So if there's a big lie there in between the two people or a block,

Then good luck getting to a higher level of awareness with them.

So that's why the first few days we focused on just communication.

And then in terms of technique,

And it's kind of really popular now,

There's books like Enlightened Sex by David Data and some others where you learn kind of,

Or some people will call it sexual kung fu,

Where you learn how to draw energy up your spine into your brain with certain breathing techniques with your partner,

Which is what Tony taught and what we practiced.

And for men,

You can learn how to orgasm without ejaculating many times over,

Which I have not mastered.

Is that something you practice on your own?

You know,

I'm kind of lazy.

You can practice on your own,

Definitely.

And women can also learn to have multiple orgasms.

But everybody's body and physiology is a little bit different.

So I don't think you can promise any kind of result.

But like with anything,

It takes practice and focus and some attention.

So it's amazing.

It changed my life in that way very,

Very much so.

Thank you,

Tony DiMarco.

She passed away last year,

But she has a great book called Heartgasm.

Oh,

Cool.

Now,

I think one of the myths around tantra is that it presupposes,

Oh,

Kind of free sex,

Or a lot of different partners.

Do you find that it was more based in an ideology of monogamy and deep connection?

That's a good question.

Yeah.

I think everything has a shallow end,

Just like spirituality.

You could find like a McDonald's style meditations on the internet,

All the way to the really deep stuff.

And tantra is the same.

So it has nothing to do with whether you're monogamous or polygamous.

I mean,

That's kind of an individual choice.

My personal opinion is that the vast majority of people are nowhere near mature enough to be polygamous.

And most polygamists are pretty immature.

They do.

So that being said,

Who knows?

You can go either way with it.

But on the deep end of tantra,

It's not just about sexuality,

But it is very much about opening that space and letting the energy go upwards instead of downwards.

So normally,

In sex,

Energy goes down,

Right?

It's kind of in your lower belly,

And then it comes out of you,

Whether you're male or female.

Women tend to have larger orgasms that move through their whole bodies than men.

But tantra is really you're reversing the energy flow,

And you're bringing that energy upwards.

So for example,

In India,

You have seven energy centers or chakras.

And so in normal sex,

It goes from that second chakra kind of below the belly button and then down.

And in tantra,

It comes up through all seven of them.

And so you have different levels of awareness that come with the sexuality.

So it's pretty incredible.

I don't think you could be successful in practicing something like tantra without having a strong,

Consistent meditation practice.

They kind of go together.

So people who just went like,

Oh,

Hey,

Man,

I want to do the tantra weekend with my girlfriend because I'm going to get lots of action.

It's like,

No,

That's not.

I mean,

You will,

But it's not going to be that going into the deep end.

Right,

Right.

Similarly to there's a real,

Well,

A couple of points here.

I mean,

One is that the impetus of that question was simply to address the stigma that is around tantra,

Right?

That it might be about kind of free sex or being kind of loose or not really deeply connected with someone.

And yet in an age where there's a tremendous awareness of conscious coupling,

Conscious uncoupling,

Polyamorous relationships,

Polygamous style relationships,

There's a real openness,

Obviously.

And we're,

You know,

2015.

2016.

2016,

Yeah.

So I was just talking about that stigma or asking about that picture that's kind of sometimes might be there from the outside looking in that,

Well,

How is this a spiritual thing?

This is just about sex,

Basically.

Well,

You know,

Cody,

When I was 23,

24,

And after I separated from that girlfriend I had,

I definitely used it to get laid.

And that's an interesting thing,

Kind of a dangerous thing sometimes.

I was too immature for a lot of the tools that I had learned.

And I definitely was more aware of certain sexual energies than most people because they hadn't done something that's so intensive like that.

And so I had met a few women and I was like,

Yeah,

I could do this tantra thing.

I'll show you.

And everybody wants to learn tantra,

Right?

But in a certain sense,

I used it in a way that wasn't really full of integrity because I was 24,

25,

And I just wanted to get laid.

And so there's kind of parts of me that were mature,

Then there were parts of me that weren't mature.

And learning trial and error,

I was like,

Oh,

That wasn't the most integrative thing to do with this person.

Right.

To say,

Oh,

I know tantra.

It would be the same as a spiritual teacher saying,

I'll give you a healing and then let's hook up.

And I found myself doing that because I didn't know it any better.

And I think when I was in my early 20s,

I thought I knew everything.

And then when I hit 30,

I was sure that I didn't know anything.

And so now I'm kind of crawling out of the crib of not knowing anything.

That's kind of how I feel.

Hey,

Baby,

Want to do tantra?

I don't know anything.

Ah,

Gotcha,

Gotcha.

And that comment and that kind of development,

Spiritual development cycle that you just alluded to kind of brings me to the other kind of connection I was going to make or analogy.

When you were talking about where some people aren't mature enough for,

Say,

Something like tantra or to integrate their spirituality with their sexuality,

There's kind of a lot of growth that has to happen ahead of that.

There's a real big thing happening right now in the spiritual circles of taking ayahuasca or taking these different drugs.

I'm on ayahuasca right now.

I'm on ayahuasca and DMT,

And I'm drinking a coffee.

Yeah,

That's some peyote,

Too.

I just vomited in there.

Let me mute myself while I puke on my cat.

Wait,

I don't have a cat.

Oh,

That's not a cat.

But there's a big movement of kind of this weekend spiritualist that goes out and wants to use some heavy duty drugs to have a spiritual experience,

Which not that I'm against that in theory,

But I think there's a certain degree of maturity and follow up,

And it really is real.

And I think one of the things that I encounter in the spiritual circles,

And not to discourage the weekend warrior that really wants to find themselves and that's exploring deeply or trying to explore deeply and need some guidance,

Is that sometimes we venture into these things and we don't realize how real they really are,

How it can open us up,

And which kind of leads me to a level of part of your expertise because for the last seven years or so,

You've been running a clairvoyant center teaching people about how to safely open up to their awareness,

And I think it's,

Of course,

Founded or rooted in a deep practice of meditation and energy awareness,

But just to kind of segue out of sex,

Which we can sit and talk about for an hour.

Maybe we could move to a little.

I want to talk about sex with my friend,

Cody.

Sex and drugs,

Yeah.

Sex and peyote and mushrooms.

So certainly we could talk about that forever in a day,

And it is a topic of interest.

I mean,

Certainly,

It's funny that we sat and talked about what we wanted to talk about in our first kind of podcast interview and show,

And then we just went off script and started talking about sex,

And we could launch into that and talk forever.

Well,

It's what most people are actually interested in.

Right,

All right.

Yeah.

Well,

And it is certainly a core part of who we are,

Right?

It's that identity of who we are sexually and the expression of that,

And then when we start to talk about energy and energy that's in us and in the body and energies that are dynamic and exciting and creative,

You know,

We can't help but mention sex at least,

Because that's a very powerful energy in the body.

Yet it's one of the energies we have to learn to gain a little control over and direct before we can truly gain control over our creative force and our ability to manifest.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

But I'm getting a little ahead here.

So tell us a little bit about maybe your take on opening up safely energy awareness and the role of meditation in that.

Yeah,

Absolutely,

And you know,

Before I found kind of the clairvoyant work that I do now,

I had tried everything from Reiki.

I did a lot of Vipassana retreats,

Which are 10-day silent meditation retreats.

I think I did like three in a year,

And they're 10 days each.

So I spent like a month in one year sitting silently.

I tried,

There's Matrix Energetics.

I tried all sorts of different healing modalities,

Meditation styles,

And Vedanta.

Did a lot of reading and searching and traveling.

And they were all really necessary experiences for me to have,

But there were definitely times,

I would say,

Where I opened up in a way that wasn't so safe.

So for example,

I was living in India,

And there was this really famous guru who was giving these yoga initiations where he would like touch your,

He would touch your chakras.

I'm like,

Hey,

Is this right?

That's not my chakra.

And well,

Your chakra is actually inside of there,

So I have to go touch it.

Well,

That didn't happen.

That chakra needs to be rubbed a little bit.

But this is actually how I got into what I do now was from having this experience.

So I went to this initiation,

And this guy touched different parts of like my stomach,

My chest,

My head,

And he did this initiation,

This fancy yoga guru.

And then I started having nightmares,

Really dark nightmares,

And I didn't feel well.

And my friend's girlfriend,

She was an older woman in her 40s,

And she had a lot of clairvoyant training experience.

And she said,

Hey,

Would you like a reading and kind of a healing?

And I said,

Yeah,

I don't even know what that is,

But that would be awesome.

And she started to work with me,

And the first thing she hit on was that initiation,

That like dark cloud of energy that was inside of me,

All of the sudden,

From this guru.

And she helped me move it out.

And I was literally holding onto the chair and like crying.

I could feel this weird thing coming out of me.

And what I think today that it was,

When I kind of reflect back,

Is this guru guy that was tapping into a lot of power,

But wasn't very much in integrity.

And if you ever have lived in India,

I mean,

Most of the gurus there are very much in it for the power,

Money,

Women.

It's a business.

Like there are some real ones,

But there's so many that are just not.

And I didn't know any better,

Right?

I had no discretion.

How was I supposed to know who's who?

And so I just let this guy do this like wild spiritual initiation on me.

And I,

In particular,

Am very sensitive.

So like,

I feel things really,

Really strongly.

I'll be like,

Ow,

What is that?

Oh,

There's weird emotions and energy in my body.

Ugh,

Ah.

I'm like,

I meditate and I scream,

And I puff and I puff,

You know?

I know,

I know.

You've seen it.

I haven't worked with people for 30 years.

You're one of the few that Yeah.

I just Express what's happening in your meditation.

It's just what,

I don't know why,

It's just what I do.

It's just,

I just my,

I'm a very kind of light constituency,

You know?

So it's like some people with food,

They eat something,

And then everything they eat affects their stomach,

And they always have a stomach ache.

For me,

Energy is like that.

If I'm around someone very negative or intense or in a room full of people that don't vibe with me,

I feel it very much in my body,

And I like,

Ugh.

Ugh.

And so this guy touched my third eye,

And I started having nightmares,

And luckily this woman helped me with it.

And at that moment,

I realized,

Holy shit,

There is so much stuff out there in relation to spirituality that I'm not aware of,

So much that's going on kind of behind the scenes,

And in other dimensions,

If you will,

Or however you want to see it.

And I'm just kind of out there,

This wild west of spirituality in India,

Going to every single guru,

Letting them touch me,

And just,

I don't know what's right or wrong,

Or good or bad,

Or healthy or unhealthy for me.

And at that point,

I had been to so many gurus,

I would literally carry around like a stack of pictures of gurus in my pocket,

And I was like an encyclopedia of gurus.

Like I knew all their names,

Even the really difficult Indian names.

Oh,

Really?

And,

Oh yeah,

Like Swami Maharaj.

Guru trading card.

Yeah,

I was like Nisagadhartha Maharaj,

This one,

And Vishwananda,

This one,

And Sivananda,

That one.

Like I knew them all by heart,

It was crazy.

I was like a spiritual nerd,

I was obsessed.

But I had absolutely no awareness of the difference.

I thought they were all enlightened,

I thought they all knew it all,

Because they were Indian gurus,

And no one ever really showed me,

Hey,

Listen,

Look at this dark side of what's going on here.

And so with that experience and with that healing,

I recognized something else was happening,

And that's when I asked her,

Hey,

Where did you get training?

And she said,

Well,

This school in Hawaii,

Which ended up being the school I was running,

I went and moved to Hawaii.

I said,

Shit,

I don't want this stuff inside of me anymore.

I flew to Hawaii,

I was like,

Teach me.

And like you said,

It's not a weekend kind of deal.

I would spend 20,

30,

40 hours a week for seven years training,

Reading,

Healing,

Meditating,

And inch by inch every single day growing into it,

Just like anything.

If you're going to go be a doctor,

You're not going to get a weekend certificate in surgery and cut somebody open.

And there's so many spiritual tantra,

Too.

Yeah,

Here's a weekend,

And you're a tantra master.

No,

Nothing in life works like that.

There's that 10,

000 hour rule with everything.

And spirituality,

Because it's so unregulated,

Because a lot of people don't think it's even real,

Or it's just not something that's easily regulated.

You healers are correct,

And you guys are incorrect.

And so you have this wild west of spirituality that's out there right now,

And it's so popular.

And it's hard for people to discern which teachers mean well and which don't.

And so for me,

Doing clairvoyant training and taking the long way really helped me learn how to discern.

But I had to have those really wild experiences to get there,

And I have so many of them.

Right.

So yeah.

There's a couple of points in there I want to draw out a little bit.

Sure.

One is the idea that it's not a weekend type of a thing.

It is a practice,

Right?

Spirituality or,

Say,

Kind of awakening to energy awareness or awakening to being more rooted in the intuitive mind in one's world.

It is a practice,

Much like any art,

Whether it's tantra or the martial arts.

Or any art becomes,

It has to become part of who you are.

And the only way that it becomes that is by doing it.

Yeah.

You can do a kung fu weekend with some other guy who has got a black belt is going to come over and kick your ass.

Exactly.

Exactly.

You can read all about.

You know,

I always kind of use that analogy when I talk to people about spirituality,

And they want to know what books to read.

And not that I'm against books.

I'm an avid reader.

But you can't get your answers from reading a book,

Because it's very similar to,

Like martial arts.

You could read a book,

All the books about martial arts.

You could know everything about it.

And then you come up against someone who's just been training in it for three months,

And they could kick your ass,

Like you say,

Right?

You need time on the mat.

And time on the mat for us is sitting in that chair and meditating.

So there's certainly that aspect of it,

Which is that step into this practice.

And of course,

The first step into it is like anything.

You don't go out and run a marathon.

You start by running for five minutes.

You don't have to practice it 20,

40 hours a week to start.

You start five minutes a day.

And there's certainly meditations for that.

So I want to kind of come back to that.

And certainly the key point about you and your sensitivity,

Because I think that is one of the key points that has to do with energy awareness and clairvoyance is that it's kind of a feedback loop.

If you're sensitive enough to see energy and know what's going on with someone,

You're also sensitive enough usually to feel it and to be the effect of it.

And so one step in one's spiritual development has to do with learning how to manage one's own sensitivity.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

I want to jump back just for a second to tell a story,

Because you were talking about those gurus touching you.

I don't have a story about being touched,

But we'll come over.

But I do have a story very similar to yours.

I was teaching clairvoyance to a group.

In fact,

Here in Colorado Springs,

When I got here about 12,

13 years ago,

I moved here from California.

And I was teaching a group of clairvoyance.

And we were doing an open house,

I was trying to open it up to more people.

And this lady came in and she got a reading.

And then she was asking questions,

And she kind of cornered me and started to tell her story a little bit because she was really afraid of what we were doing.

And she was afraid of letting someone give her a healing or letting them manipulate her energy or touch her in any way.

So I said,

Well,

What's going on?

And yet she was also very interested at the same time.

And this is often the case someone is both drawn to and a little bit scared of the opening or the energy awareness that a psychic might be in.

And so her story was that about four or five years prior,

She had gone to India.

And she had found this guru and she had gone to this guru and this guru took a look at her and said,

Well,

Let me just.

.

.

He took a look at her.

Let me just touch you here and I'm going to turn on your Kundalini for her,

For you.

And he did,

He turned on her Kundalini and she had a tremendous awakening,

Spiritual awakening experience that just was quite dramatic.

And then she got sick the next day and she almost died.

And then for the next four years,

She was really sick and no doctor,

She came back to America and no doctors could figure out what was wrong with her.

And she had all these symptoms and just really couldn't work and it ruined her life.

And it took her about four years to kind of get past that opening where she wasn't ready for that opening.

And that guru just reached over and said,

Well,

Here,

I'll just turn this on for you.

Exactly.

I'll just flip the switch.

And of course she had no tools,

No awareness and no way to manage what came up for her.

It might've been the same guru because that guy was doing Kundalini awakening too.

That guru.

Yeah.

Oh,

No.

So I said,

I see exactly what's going on with you.

Sit down and we'll turn this off.

I said,

I teach Kundalini,

But I teach you how to turn it on and you because you won't turn it on beyond your skill level,

Right?

Beyond what you can handle in yourself.

But someone else comes along and flips an energy switch in you and you may not be ready for it.

And for people who are listening who are like,

What the hell are you guys talking about?

Claire Boyer readings and Kundalini.

Right.

We got a little off topic.

I don't know either.

It's okay.

Don't worry about it.

Well,

And I was confused during the sex part.

Yeah.

So Cody's confused about sex and I'm confused about Kundalini.

But just kind of very briefly,

Kundalini is an energy.

It's a term from Sanskrit,

But it's an energy that comes up kind of the spine.

A lot of people,

They correlate it with sexuality,

But not necessarily.

It's just kind of this life force energy that rises up and awakens and comes up through the spine.

And sometimes it happens slowly and naturally.

And other times people,

It just like raptures upwards and people,

They get blown out like a circuit gets blown out and it's too much for them.

And I've seen that happen with a lot of people.

So you do have to be very diligent and kind of conscious with that kind of practice.

And a lot of tantra teachers will talk about Kundalini and there's a lot of Kundalini yoga classes out there and tons of literature on it.

And it's a very kind of powerful energy,

I guess you could say.

It's a pretty strong,

Strong energy,

But we can get more into that another time.

No,

No,

It is a powerful energy.

And in most cases,

What happens is you're seeking awakening and you,

For instance,

Practice yoga and you do the moves that activate your Kundalini,

Right?

That turn on that awakening and then tends to work out better.

Yeah.

And let's even demystify it and take it out of kind of the spiritual context.

If you bring it into kind of everyday language,

So you're bringing your awareness to kind of higher levels of mind.

So kind of like a low level would be just,

I want to eat,

I want to get tasting bacon,

I want to have sex for two minutes,

I want to feel things,

I want everything I want,

Right?

That would be like a very low vibration of life where a lot of people live.

I just want what I want,

I want to feel good and I don't care about anything else.

And then maybe get into a higher kind of space of like having compassion for people and love that's kind of like in the heart space.

And then creativity and really clear,

Beautiful communication in the throat space.

And maybe learning how to see energy.

I guess that is more spiritual,

But having vision.

You could say like an architect has vision.

Different artists,

They have vision that's kind of climbing higher.

And then even higher to really high states of mind concepts.

There's some amazing philosophers out there,

Thinkers,

Inventors,

Creators,

Like an Einstein,

And up into that kind of space.

So taking it out of the spiritual,

If you were to translate Kundalini,

You'd be coming out from just that lower vibration of like what I want from life,

Give me everything,

To those higher levels of creativity,

Awareness,

Feeling,

Compassion,

Love.

So you don't have to cloak it in like spiritual terminology that turns people off,

I've noticed sometimes.

And then other people,

They're spiritual nerds,

Right?

And they love like tell me about chakras and auras and energy.

So it just kind of depends on your temperament.

But I think you can explain it and come at it from any angle,

Whatever a person is comfortable with.

And yeah,

This guru sounds like he touched her and awoke something in her and really messed her up.

And I don't know if she ended up getting training with you or not,

Or really working through it.

What happened to her?

She ended up getting some healings and getting kind of back her energy back on track and getting a few tools.

She didn't delve too deeply into the training.

Yeah.

And it's,

You know,

I don't think the guru had any necessarily negative intentions.

He was just doing what he knew,

Awakenings of an energy.

And it's been doing it in such a way that,

You know,

It just kind of didn't necessarily,

Oh,

I guess it didn't really give tools or a follow up to that person's sensitivity or what might come up for them.

And this whole discussion really kind of leads me,

At least in my thinking,

Back to where we started in terms of being sensitive to energy and how do you safely open up or connect to energy awareness and or just tools to kind of bring you to a space to be able to start,

Not only to consider,

Say,

The spiritual side of things and energy,

But to start to connect with that inner universe,

To start to awaken to maybe who you are beyond what you do,

Right?

Who you are internally.

And of course,

We tend to call that meditation,

That looking inward.

But all of these spiritual things we're just kind of bantering about kind of come back around to,

You know,

The fact that energy is real and you are sensitive to energy and how can you start to get in touch with that sensitivity,

Become aware of it and then manage your energy and sensitivity.

Yeah,

I would say two things for that.

First,

You can never be totally safe,

Just like in anything in life,

There's going to be risks and you're going to fall and get hurt.

And that's okay.

That's all the experiences that I've had where I did do something dangerous,

Spiritually and got into some trouble.

Ultimately,

They were really good for me because that's how I learned and that's how I was able to teach other people,

Hey,

Watch out for these pitfalls.

So,

You know,

No matter what direction you go,

You're going to,

There's going to be danger on the path.

And of course,

You want to mitigate that as much as possible.

So like,

For example,

When I teach clairvoyance,

I teach it in stages.

So you learn like different tools.

So how to ground yourself,

How to get around.

So how to have boundaries,

How to be behind your eyes.

And so you learn over time.

So you don't get bombarded with too much at once and you learn it in a safe,

Comfortable way.

And so that I think that's really important to make sure you kind of time release the teachings and you don't just hit someone with everything at once.

And then in terms of the,

Yeah,

Opening up to the tools and your long-term practice,

I would say for most people,

Just find what works for you,

You know,

Find what you like.

Not everyone's going to be into like energy and clairvoyance,

But some people really are.

And for me,

There was this stigma around it when I started because when I was in India and I was practicing Vedanta,

Which is like the highest level of philosophy of Indian practice,

It's like the cream of the crop.

You've got to be really there for that one,

You know?

And so there's nothing higher than non-dual teachings.

And,

But for me that,

That was okay.

But what I really attracted to was clairvoyance.

And some of my spiritual friends were like,

Well,

That's like a lower level of teaching or blah,

Blah,

Blah,

You know?

But it was what really drew me.

And so I don't think you can say this is the one healthy,

Safe way.

Everyone kind of goes in the direction that they're attracted to because we're all different.

And I just happen to be a spiritual nerd who likes to talk about chakras and energy and all that kind of stuff.

But for other people,

They might just be into sitting silently and sitting still.

Other people are really into kind of emotional freedom and developing their emotional awareness.

And so everyone kind of takes a different angle.

But for me,

It's definitely,

I like the energy work and that feels safest for me,

Because I like to be aware of what I'm working with,

Who I'm working with,

And the energy I'm working with.

Other people,

They don't care so much,

You know?

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Well,

And I think for you,

Given not only my knowing of you,

But just what you alluded to earlier,

Where you're very sensitive to energy.

So when you're sensitive to energy and the way that your body reacts to it,

Learning how to manage that energy and manage your sensitivity,

You know,

It's very important.

Yeah,

That's huge for me.

I mean,

If I don't meditate most days,

I go out in the world and if I get bombarded with energy,

I start to lose myself and I don't feel as good.

So not everyone needs so much maintenance,

But I am very high maintenance.

I'm very energetic maintenance.

Sometimes I need two or three hours.

I'll sit and I'll do my thing.

And also,

You know,

I write and I teach clairvoyance and I teach meditation.

And so,

Obviously,

I have to be more in that space than other people.

But I tend to be very high maintenance when it comes to that stuff.

Yeah.

Although there's many,

Many of us out there that are sensitive to energy,

And we don't realize that that's what we're being sensitive to.

And so the question is,

What's wrong with me?

Why can't I be around a crowd of people?

Or why do I get drained?

When I'm around a crowd of people,

Or why can't I,

You know,

Quiet my mind and get reconnected with myself after a day of having to deal and interact with people?

And it all comes back to one's sensitivity to energy.

And I think you were lucky enough,

Maybe,

To kind of have an interest in spirituality and meditation.

So you started to explore and get answers to what is happening to me,

Where if you didn't have that opportunity or that space,

You might just be out there still going,

What's happening to me?

I feel like I hit the spiritual lottery,

To be honest,

Kind of looking back at my life story and my path and how it unfolded from like meditating when I was 16 to eventually go into places like India and then finding a place like Hawaii where I learned from some amazing teachers,

Including you.

I mean,

It couldn't have been written any better.

I feel so,

So blessed and lucky that it all unfolded that way.

And a lot of people are not so lucky.

They can't find anything to help them.

And so I created this website,

Grounded Mind,

Where people can come learn from any,

They don't have to have any spiritual background.

You could be totally atheist or whatever you want to be,

But you can still learn meditation tools that can help you with these energies.

And for me,

Everyone reacts differently,

But like you were saying,

Being sensitive to energies,

Going out to a party or wherever,

And then you feel drained.

For me,

There's always like a background radiation of underlying invalidation.

So something would always feel like a little bit off.

So the moment I would start to feel other people's energy,

The moment I would start to feel not myself,

My head was full of thoughts that didn't belong to me.

There was this jumbled up and I just didn't feel very good.

I would drop down into feeling invalidated,

Like I wasn't good.

I was,

There's something wrong with me.

I can't do this.

I'm dumb.

I'm slow.

I don't feel good.

Other people feel good.

And so for me,

A lot of years went into letting go of that invalidation and realizing it wasn't me.

You know,

When you walk into a room,

Most people are operating from some level of invalidation and self-doubt and that vibrates off of them.

And if you're sensitive,

You sponge it in and then you feel the way 10 other people feel about themselves in the room.

And now you feel 10 times worse,

Like you're a piece of crap,

Big pile of doo-doo.

And then you don't operate as well and you're not efficient and your energy doesn't move quickly.

And maybe you think slower and all of a sudden,

You are a little dumber.

You get dumb.

So for me,

It was always getting through that invalidation every single day,

Over and over.

There's nothing wrong with me.

Getting through that picture that there's something wrong with me.

And I'll just finish with this point.

I majored in philosophy and politics in college,

But I was really into philosophy and really into spirituality as a teenager.

And nobody around me was.

I grew up in New Jersey.

I never met a single person until pretty much I graduated college.

Maybe one teacher in college or a few teachers in college that were into it.

But nobody ever validated that in me.

And everyone in my family was going into law,

Going into being a doctor,

A business person.

And none of those paths called to me at all.

And here I am just like,

What the hell am I going to do?

I'm into this weird thing that nobody else is into.

And so I was perpetually in this invalidation around who am I going to be?

What am I going to do?

Because there's no college major for clairvoyance.

Hey,

I don't want to major in anthropology.

I want to major in psychics.

So I had to take the long way.

I had to go travel the world.

I had to find myself and realize,

You know what,

I have a unique path,

I guess you could say,

And I'm going to follow it because I'm stubborn and that's what I'm going to do.

Luckily enough,

I had parents that were open enough to kind of just,

You know,

I don't think they liked it,

But they didn't really stop me from doing it.

And I think there's a lot of people out there who,

They just don't fit in a bunch of misfits.

And they don't know what to do about it.

And I think clairvoyant tools is just one amazing way to start to clear your energy and clear your space out from everybody else's.

So you can,

You can't even,

How do you even get a sense of who you are and what you want if there's 10 other people or a hundred other people's demands and expectations and judgments floating through your head?

So the first step,

I think,

Usually for most people is to clean that space out,

Get a sense of who you are through meditating,

Whether that takes a few weeks or a few years.

And in that process,

You start to learn about what you want to create.

And kind of that's,

That's where I'm at anyway.

Yeah.

It kind of moves me.

Yeah.

Let's,

Let's,

Let's kind of drill down on that just a little bit,

Because I think,

You know,

We got off a little bit on some of our,

You know,

Higher spiritual aspirations and energy awareness and talk about that kind of stuff.

And of course,

Many of us are very interested in that realm.

But,

But from what I'm hearing from you is because of your sensitivity and the path you had to take to get there,

Which I'm sure was not just a bed of roses,

Right?

I mean,

There's some big ups and downs in that kind of,

Actually everything was super easy.

Yeah.

I found enlightenment in like a month and I was done.

It was pretty good.

But now I just,

But I think because of that,

And you correct me if I'm wrong,

But I think because of that,

You have a real sensitivity to that beginner and to making that first step,

Something that,

That is really accessible,

Really validating,

Right?

To help counteract that invalidation and something that kind of leads a person into opening up,

Getting connected with themselves,

Healing themselves,

Sorting out all of that sensitivity to other people's energy in a way that kind of is safe,

I think,

And is real step-by-step.

And what's the end goal?

So then really I'm referring to,

To your project now of grounded mind,

Which is this fabulous website for someone to start to learn not only meditation,

But and a level of energy awareness,

I.

E.

Energy tools to start to manage their own space or even get a concept that,

Hey,

Maybe I have my own space,

Even amongst a crowd of people,

I can have my own space.

And where do you see that leading?

Like what's your,

Your kind of initial vision or mission for the website and for people?

And then what's,

What's the end result?

Where do you want to take people with that?

So the way I set up the website is I call it the grounded mind program.

So every week you get a new meditation and you learn a new tool and build upon a tool that you learned.

So you're essentially what I taught in Hawaii.

And it's in a little bit of a different package,

But essentially it's learning how to find your space,

How to clear out the noise in your head,

How to have boundaries with other people and how to meditate,

Which a lot of people are looking for.

So the first month you do what's called the grounded mind is the first month and the second month is grounding life.

And the third month is learning about energy.

So the first month for four weeks,

We just learned how to really clear the noise out of our heads.

You know,

If you right now just kind of become aware of where is your awareness,

Where's kind of the seat.

If you had a chair of your awareness,

It's in the,

It's in your head,

Right?

It's in the center of your head.

It's not in your toe.

It's not in your hand.

You can have awareness in other places in your body,

But essentially that seat of consciousness is somewhere behind your eyes.

And so that's where we start.

You have to clean out that space first,

Cause that's where you are.

So you spend the first month doing that.

And then we learn how to ground our bodies and we go on from there.

And each meditation is about 20 minutes long.

I would say a lot of people,

You know,

They like,

They ask me,

Can we just do like five minutes or seven minutes?

I have seven minutes.

And you know,

I might be a little bit of a stickler with this,

But like,

You don't want your sex lasting five minutes most of the time.

And I don't think your meditation should either.

It takes five,

10,

15 minutes just for your mind to come down for most people.

So five minutes sometimes can be fine.

You know,

Every once in a while,

It's great to get a quickie,

But generally it takes longer than that.

And I'm slow.

Like when I meditate,

Sometimes I need way more time than that.

I tend to be slow in my practice,

But so that I've been going with 20 minutes and it's,

It's been kind of working as a good amount of time for,

For most people,

But there is a level of commitment there.

A lot of people have a hard time sitting for 20 minutes,

But I've noticed that you have to make the meditation a little bit more active.

So if I just tell you to sit in stillness for 20 minutes after a week or two or a month,

You're going to quit because you get,

You're going to get bored and you're not going to know how to deal with energies that come up.

So it's a little bit more interactive with,

With how we do it.

And that's why I teach tools.

So we laugh a lot as well.

I'd use a lot of amusement.

Sometimes I'll have people make animal noises and say different things out loud,

Even when they're by themselves to kind of shake up the energy.

So I'm kind of busting the notion that meditation is something serious.

It's hard.

It's just sitting still.

And it's for people who don't have crazy minds,

You know,

Meditation is for people that have crazy minds.

That's what it's for.

You know,

If you're sick,

Go to the doctor.

If you have a crazy mind,

Start to meditate,

Which almost all of us do,

Right?

Almost everybody who lives in the Western world has a really effed up crazy out of control thought process and they need to rein it in.

So that's where I start.

And I think if you don't start there,

It's hard to take the next step of,

You know,

Learning to see energy or being creative in your own space.

All those lofty goals really have to start with clearing out some of the noise.

Yeah,

You have to clear out some of the noise and get some space.

I think there's a big misconception that meditation is about wrangling and controlling that crazy mind and getting it to stop.

And I think we all know that's impossible.

But with some intention and some tools,

You can learn how to direct that mind into something productive,

Just like you would direct a two-year-old away from something dangerous into something that's shiny and interesting,

But safe,

Right?

Yeah.

You learn how to,

I think,

Collect yourself and separate from those other kind of stresses and thoughts of the world and then begin to direct your mind into something productive.

Does that sound fair?

Like part of what you did?

Yeah.

I read something the other day that said the average American adult spends 75% of their waking hours on a daily basis.

So whether it be cell phone,

Television,

Computer,

75% of your waking hours.

And that's up 75% from 100 years ago.

Yeah,

That's right.

I think it's all about entertainment.

And I think we need to start to really share the idea that meditation is about inner entertainment.

It's about learning how to connect with yourself and entertain yourself within and find that joy.

Don't go blind.

Don't go blind playing with yourself during meditation.

Oh,

Now we're back where we began.

It always comes back to sex.

It always comes back to sexuality.

No,

I totally agree with you.

And if you YouTube meditation,

If you Spotify meditation and you listen on iTunes,

You're going to find so much stuff out there that I personally think is just too serious and it's difficult to continue long term with.

Most people quit meditation very soon after they start.

For example,

There's an app called Headspace.

I've had at least 10 or 15 friends maybe tell me they downloaded the app,

They did the free trial and they did not continue.

And one of the reasons I think is they got bored.

It just wasn't engaging enough.

And so meditation isn't about kind of unplugging from your life.

It's engaging in your life in a different way.

So if you're having relationship problems,

If you're having money issues,

If you don't know your life's purpose or what direction to take your career,

Those are things that you address in meditation.

Those are things that you clear up and get answers about in meditation.

So for me,

Meditating is about really learning what is putting you in resistance to parts of your life that aren't working,

Clearing that space out,

And then finding your answers and being creative and taking your next steps with it.

So you're using meditation to enhance every single part of your life,

Not to unplug and just kind of be separate from it all and then go back into the shit show afterwards.

So,

Oh,

I need 10 minutes of peace and then I'll go back into the madness in the next room.

Like,

No,

Address the madness in the next room inside yourself.

Why is it creating this madness for you?

Why is it making you uncomfortable or unhappy?

Address that inside yourself and change yourself from the inside out.

And then when you change yourself from the inside out,

The outside starts to change,

In my experience.

But you have to do the work on the inside first.

I think this whole notion of like,

I'm going to think a positive thought and then I'm going to be rich is just silly.

You know,

There's work that needs to be done,

Just like in anything.

Yeah,

And I think meditation really isn't about disconnecting,

Like you're just saying.

It really is about connecting with oneself in a productive way.

And in many cases,

We need to sit down and meditate after our day,

Because we did disconnect from the overwhelming emotions or pressures or stresses that arose during the average day.

And our average day is serious,

As we're trying to make our way through the world.

So to create a space and time to sit back and reconnect with oneself and maybe find a way to even laugh at ourselves a little bit,

Where we took something serious,

Is very healing.

I think there's a very healing aspect to meditation.

Absolutely.

I mean,

I can't promise it'll work for everybody,

But it's definitely a core part of my life and my day.

And it's made a world of a difference.

I remember I was meditating a lot when I was living in Hawaii and teaching and this company hired me to go do a presentation for them around something completely different,

Had nothing to do with meditation.

But I was just feeling good and kind of radiating that good feeling I had going.

And I gave some sales presentation talk and this woman walked up to me afterwards and she goes,

What do you do?

And I was like,

What do you mean?

I'm doing this sales thing.

She goes,

No,

No,

No,

You do something else.

I want what you have.

What do you do?

And I was like,

Wow,

That was forward.

And I said,

Well,

I run a meditation school.

I teach meditation.

She goes,

That's it.

That's what it is.

I knew it.

I knew it.

I knew it.

I want it.

And I said,

Well,

You're not going to get it from me.

You're going to get it from you.

So if you want it,

You can come take some classes and get it from you.

She was kind of pointing at me like she wanted to suck it out of me.

I was like,

You ain't going to touch me,

Guru.

You're not my guru.

You can't touch me.

But a lot of people are looking for it,

But they don't know what they're looking for.

And I would say what you're looking for is inside of you.

And the reason you can't find it is because you keep looking everywhere else.

And it's hard to just look in,

Right?

If I say close your eyes and look in,

What are you going to do?

You're just going to kind of dabble around.

And that's why in the beginning,

It's really important to have tools,

Kind of that bridge to help you walk inside yourself.

And I would say that the inside of ourselves is as big,

If not bigger than the outside.

You have an entire universe inside yourself.

It's infinite.

It's incredible.

It's creative.

It's dynamic and it's alive.

And there's not a single day in our lives that someone teaches us that.

And most of us don't even think about that concept until we become adults and we're unhappy.

And we go,

How do I fix this unhappiness?

And then somehow we come upon some meditation technique or something like that.

And we start to look in,

Which is not the healthiest way.

We should be taught that from the early stages of life.

And luckily for me,

I started meditating at an early age,

But for most people,

They hit it when they're in their midlife crisis and they're miserable and nothing else is working and they have money,

They have friends,

They have time and they're still miserable.

And so naturally life pulls them into looking inwards and they start to get it.

And some people don't get it.

They just are miserable.

But I would say you better start now if you have it.

The harder it gets.

Well,

I think the world tells us that you're going to find that happiness out there in that other person or that job or that activity.

You better make me happy,

Cody,

Quick.

This is a podcast with a happy ending.

I'm unsubscribing from your intuitive vision website if you don't make me happy in five days.

But I think that that's what you were just describing is where we're kind of told that we'll find our happiness out there when really the happiness is within.

And I don't mean that as some kind of a cliche.

I mean,

When you sit down and actually connect with who you are within,

You suddenly tend to become a little bit more happy with who you are.

You can start to like yourself a little bit.

And I would even say to find the happiness out there,

You have to find the key in here to find the door to open out there.

So it's both.

There's a lot of amazing things out there in the world to experience.

No doubt about it.

I mean,

You can bliss out sitting next to a tree and have incredible human relationships and incredible career and love life.

But to do that,

You have to find the key,

Which is inside of yourself first.

So some people,

I would say,

I've had a lot of experience with spiritual people in all sorts of places,

And they get stuck on the concept of,

I'm just going to go inwards.

I'm going to find my enlightenment.

And when I'm enlightened,

Then I'll be happy.

And I won't have to ever deal with all those idiots called everybody else in the world.

Right.

So just be me,

And I'll be enlightened and no one will ever bother me again.

And that's really a state of resistance to life.

You have to engage in life.

People get stuck in meditation and going inwards,

And they forget to come back out.

And so it's a dynamic process.

You go in,

You come out,

You go in,

You come out,

And you build that bridge with people around you in life and continuously work through the resistance you have to certain kinds of people,

Situations,

And dynamics in life that we all have to go through.

So I would say to anybody who isn't to,

Who really isn't to meditating or spirituality,

Be careful of getting stuck in that place of being in resistance to the world.

And I've had so many spiritual friends go,

Oh my God,

Global warming and war and politics and lobbyists and everything's,

Everything's messed up or destroying the planet.

It's all screwed.

I'm going inwards.

Forget about it.

It's all an illusion.

I'm out.

And they're not happy because they're in resistance to everything and they're missing out on everything.

And that's a form of disengaging.

You know,

And I think that we forget that that happiness idea goes both ways,

Which is,

You know,

Something out there in the world's not going to make me happy,

But also that thing out there in the world can't make me unhappy.

Right.

Oh,

Great point.

Yeah.

And so we have to kind of realize that it's not a one-sided deal.

When I free myself from the illusion that something out there in the world is going to make me happy,

I'm also freeing myself from the illusion that something out there could make me unhappy.

That there's anything out there that's to blame kind of falls away at the same time,

Or it kind of should,

Or it has to.

I can't really do one without the other.

And it's hard.

It's,

It's,

It's hard.

I mean,

I've been meditating for years and I would say more than most people around me,

I pay attention to every single energy and,

And always aware of my reactions and my thought processes a lot more than most people,

Just because that's the profession I'm in.

It's what I teach and then it's what I practice.

And still every day,

I come upon so many situations and instances where I'm like,

I want to bite that person,

I'm going to bite them.

Because meditation doesn't make you not human.

I think there's so many people that go into the spiritual world with this idea that they want to conquer,

Transcend,

Transcend humanness.

And that,

That's really not it.

I think it's about learning to connect with and appreciate reality and,

And the experience.

And for all you men,

At the end of the day,

No matter how much you meditate,

You still have a dick.

That's right.

And as Robin Williams said,

You have two heads,

But only enough blood to operate one at a time.

You know,

And so I,

Yeah,

I,

A lot of people go,

Oh my God,

You're spiritually,

You're not supposed to say things like that or curse or make dirty jokes or do those things or like,

You know,

In religious traditions,

You're not supposed to like sexuality.

You only do it twice to have babies and then you never talk about it again.

And obviously we started the conversation today with tantra and sex and Kundalini.

So that's not our styles.

And I think a lot of people,

When they take classes with you or with me,

They find it refreshing that they can be themselves and spirituality and meditation is not about becoming someone better than who you are or becoming someone else.

It's embracing who you are more.

And so if I'm a funny,

Quirky,

You know,

Dude that likes to make silly jokes,

I'll embrace that in a healthy way and bring awareness into it.

And yeah,

Hopefully use it in a way that helps people.

But I've seen so many spiritual people shy away of who they really are because they think it's bad and wrong.

And that's the same old game religions have been playing with us forever.

Oh,

Absolutely.

And it's a very easy trap to fall into.

And every day I'm kind of conscious of if and when I do that,

You know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Meditation at best is not about trading one illusion for another.

That's a good point.

It's not about upgrading from one false idea to another.

It's about connecting with kind of that real inner sense of oneself and learning how to communicate with that and listen to that,

The kind of the God of our own heart.

So not the God of any religion,

But kind of that inner voice that's going to give you the answer you need for your next step or for your highest good or healing.

And meditation is the place to find that,

I think.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

You know,

I was at a party once and I said something dirty.

I made a dirty joke and this really spiritual guy next to me said,

You know,

Whenever you do that or say something like that,

That is a lot of karma you just accrued.

And I'm like,

Well,

You could say that,

You know,

Now I'm a sinner and like,

You know,

I mean,

You could use it in so many different ways.

That's the same thing so many people have been saying through so many religious traditions for so long.

And for me,

I'm like,

No,

That's,

That's silly.

And,

You know,

If that's true for you,

Great.

You can have that for yourself,

But to put that on to somebody else,

You're playing the same old game again.

So I like to have fun.

And for all you guys listening,

I hope you do too.

And if you don't,

You probably would have stopped listening like 45 minutes ago.

Exactly.

We like to weed them out early.

You got to weed out the weak ones.

Yeah,

Like,

He said things that were wrong and not nice.

He's when he said the thing about the guru touching him,

I hung up.

So one last question,

Because this is our first interview and podcast,

If this makes the cut.

And we did decide to do not just to have me interview you,

But to team up and do a podcast called Energy Matters,

Where we're going to explore how it is energy matters in different people's professions and world and interaction with the world and how they're bringing growth and healing and awakening to the world through whatever it is that they do,

But with an emphasis on the energy behind things,

The spirituality behind things.

And what,

You know,

If you kind of think about your idea for a podcast,

Your goal,

Your vision,

What would it be if you,

You know,

Just off the cuff?

What would you,

What would you want to see?

Oh,

Creating something so people can come listen for 30 minutes or an hour,

However long we talk for.

And they can,

As they're listening,

Start to release the invalidation around who they are,

That naturally gets built up every single day from being out in the world around other people.

And that can validate their path and what they're interested in.

And obviously,

If you're going to listen to these podcasts,

You can have some kind of interest in meditation and learning about it.

So definitely shining a light on different meditation techniques,

How it helps improve our lives,

How we could bring it out into the world and how to not be a spiritual snob or a meditation snob and how to laugh and have fun and be silly and take it all with a grain of salt.

You know,

We're going to make a lot of jokes and some of them are going to be off color and it's just kind of our style and come play and listen,

Learn and grow.

Yeah,

We're used to putting our foot in our mouth.

Yeah.

Sensitive.

Put my chakra in my mouth.

Psychics.

Yeah.

Well,

Thank you,

David.

That was very beautiful.

I like that vision for the podcast and I certainly share in that and have similar aspirations for it.

So.

Great.

Yeah.

Well,

Thanks for taking the time to hang out and share your story.

And I'm sure we could talk longer.

There's a lot of great stories in there that we didn't get to.

And,

You know,

Certainly there is that opportunity.

Our podcast may be geared around interviewing interesting people,

But we also may just have a Q&A time,

Right?

Absolutely.

Start to send in questions and we can share,

You know,

Our experience over the years and years of,

You know,

Working the spiritual path.

And you've got way more experience than me.

I mean,

You've been teaching for 30 years.

So definitely,

Definitely.

I'm excited.

Yeah.

Yeah,

I'm very excited.

So this was awesome.

Thanks,

Cody.

Thank you again.

And we'll talk again.

All right.

See you guys soon.

See you soon.

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Reviews

Nice talk, a lot of beneficial topics for me.

Good vibes (:

For me this was an introduction to both David G’s practice and the Energy Matters podcast. It sparked my interest in energy work.

Oh my gosh that was so funny, loved the openness, humor, and education, thanks guys!

This was a refreshingly honest and informative/ educational talk. Thank You.

Interesting, fun, thought-provoking.

Great fun 😊 and great info!
Thank you 💕

Extremely entertaining! I will play this tonight for hubby. Thank you for keeping it real! ✌🏼❤

Amazing! Loved that you can also be lighthearted and talk about deep things :) refreshing ❤️

Great conversation, enlightening topics and so many moments to laugh out loud! What a feel good podcast- thanks! I learned a lot :-)

David is always delightful to listen to whatever the topic!

Namaste,
Dakini Jewel

That was quite interesting. Never to old to learn !! 💙💚💛💜

I loved this podcast, your energy and free flowing dialogue was so refreshing and deeply appreciated 💞🙏 can't wait to hear future podcasts.

I truly enjoyed listening to this discussion. All of the points made about the spectrum of spirituality was right on point! Anyone can call themselves spiritual but where do your intentions lie? It's not a contest. It's a journey of growth and acquired wisdom along the way. Thank you for this!

Very fun and inspirational 😊

Wow! I finally got around to listening to this, and it exceeded anything I could've expected! The personal experiences you shared helped to explain a lot of things and answer several internal questions that have been floating around in my head for quite some time. Hearing the term, "spiritually sensitive," made me feel validated; there's a term out there for me too, who has never quite fit in in western society. And to hear your experiences as a spiritually sensitive person was so liberating knowing that I'm not the only one who feels weighed down and less confident after being in a crowd of people, for instance. Thank you for clearly and playfully explaining all of these topics. I am so grateful to have listened to this! ☮❤😊🙇💓

I am now over my data limit. Totally worth it!

Thank you guys!! That was great