How To Give Up Doubt

This talk is part of a series on 'How to overcome five hindrances' and it focuses on the hindrance of doubt and how to let it go.

The five hindrances are different types of dullness, distraction and disturbance that cover and suppress our mind preventing us experiencing clear, beneficial, and peaceful mental states.

This podcast introduces the hindrance of doubt so we can understand how it functions as negative mental states we experience and what skills and methods we can learn and practice to reduce its intensity, let it go and eventually abandoning doubt completely.

Length: 74 minutes

Please note: This track may include some explicit language.

Transcript

Good morning everybody.

It's good to see you.

Welcome.

This is our class on the hindrance of doubt and we're going to investigate exactly how doubt is an obstacle.

We're going to also discuss how to provide some anecdotes as to how to overcome the hindrance of doubt.

So welcome.

It's good to have you here.

Thank you.

Thank you Simon.

Yeah it's great to see you all.

You're welcome.

So we've been doing some classes on the five hindrances and so far this will be the fifth.

So previously we did a class on the hindrance of ill-will,

The hindrance of flurry and worry,

Hindrance of sloth and talker and the last one we did was the hindrance on sense design.

So the hindrances are hindrances in the context of developing the qualities and the understandings and the knowledges of the Buddha that can come about through practicing Buddha Dharma.

So in each in their own way,

Like obstacles or make it difficult or prevent our mind from getting clarity on the thing that we're trying to understand and the path that the Buddha taught.

So when we talk about doubt there's different forms of doubt and some of them are ones that we would recognize in a normal social sense like self-doubt would be lack of confidence for example or having anxiety about ourselves and things that are coming up that we might feel anxious about.

So we could call these a sort of a social doubt or a self-doubt.

And then there's another sort of doubt which is a lack of clarity.

So for example this is described of say you were in a forest and you went into the forest and you know there's trees and bushes and everything and then at some point you realized you didn't know which way to go.

You didn't know which way to get out of the forest or to go to where you wish to go to.

So it's like that's a sort of doubt and we can have that situation you know where we have something we have to decide but we just don't know what direction will work.

And it's like we we can't really get any resolution or momentum because we're not confident in being able to go in this direction or do this action or deal with something in this particular way.

So it's like we can't really apply ourselves.

We go one step forward and one step back.

So this is because in a sense this is a type of doubt that we don't actually know which is the right direction that we could go in.

And then there's another form of doubt and this is particularly the one that relates to our practice.

It's called sceptical doubt.

So underneath this sort of sceptical doubt there's a few elements that we could consider and understand.

One of them is if we look at the word scepticism.

Actually the definition of scepticism is the opinion that real knowledge of any kind is unobtainable.

So that's kind of like a belief system or a belief that there's no other sort of level of knowledge than that that you could get through say education and just trying to understand things in an intellectual way.

That there's not another way that you could come to know the truth.

So from this viewpoint,

This belief that real knowledge of any kind is unobtainable,

You can see that that sort of mind cannot accept that there is such a thing as Dharma.

Because Dharma is based on the experience of the Buddha.

He attained understanding into things that his intellectual mind or intellectual mind couldn't understand.

That there was a state which the Buddha attained where he could understand things that are beyond our normal conventional understanding such as the law of karma,

For example,

Or remembering past lives,

Or even what he taught,

The Four Noble Truths.

So there's sort of like an agenda for this sort of sceptical doubt that means it's like a disbelief that it's even possible to have this sort of knowledge.

And therefore there's not sort of a freedom in that mind to investigate,

To be able to check these things out,

And to be able to have a clear sort of mind which can look and see things directly,

Which is the sort of knowledge that Buddhism is to develop.

So when that mind of doubt investigates something like what we teach in Buddhism,

The motive for the investigation is usually to disprove the thing.

It's usually to discredit it.

The mind of doubt might be willing to do an investigation but underneath the investigation it's trying to find out the problem so it can disprove it,

To find the fault,

To show that actually all along it was never possible,

All along it couldn't be right.

So you can see that with that sort of view it's like it doesn't really have a chance to find any other sort of understanding other than the one that the belief system has because it sabotages any real investigation which is unbiased.

Also there's like a level of mistrust that comes from that belief system about anyone that's teaching the Dharma because it's like the very idea of this belief system is they don't really know,

They're saying all these things but they can't really know these things to be true.

So therefore this is the level of skepticism.

And from that,

Because the motive of that mind is to show why those sorts of teachings can't be true,

There's also a level of disparagement of the people that are teaching like that because it's like an arrogance.

They don't know that actually,

They don't know because the belief is they can't know.

So there's like a disparagement that comes along with this mind of skepticism.

And so it's a hindrance in the sense that it doesn't allow an opportunity for a real clear investigation.

And even to put in a sincere way whatever you need to do to practice to be able to understand these things is not really possible from that type of mind which we could call skeptical doubt.

So this is one of the hindrances.

And then there's another form of this doubt that is taught in Buddhism.

So Buddhism says that there's different types of mental objects which are defined as being either wholesome or unwholesome.

So the types of mental states that we experience,

Some of them are consistent with the Buddhist practice,

With the process of trying to wake up,

To see things clearly,

To understand ourselves.

Some mental states will help in that endeavor,

But other mental states will prevent the ability to understand things clearly,

Even to understand ourselves,

To understand our own mind.

So for example,

These are considered to be like cloud on our mind.

And we know we've been reading,

We've been talking about them with the earlier hindrances like ill will is one of these.

Flurry and worry,

You can see flurry and worry,

It doesn't have a capacity to see things clearly because it's so busy on the process of being worried or concerned or agitated.

And we gave the example of the surface of a pond,

That if you have the surface of a pond which is very still,

You can see a reflection in that quite clearly.

You can see your own face,

For example.

But if the surface of the pond is disturbed by wind or something like that,

Then the reflection,

You can't see it.

All you can see is flashes of colour.

So flurry and worry has this effect of disturbance on the mind.

It means that we can't really see things clearly.

We can't develop clarity and wisdom,

Which are the things that we wish to develop in Buddhism.

So one of these unwholesome mental states that is identified in Buddhism is called doubt.

And actually it is a type of mental state that appears,

You know,

Some of them,

There's 14 of these mental states that are considered unbeneficial.

They're considered that you can't develop,

You know,

Your own happiness and well-being from these.

And these are things like ill-will,

Attachment,

Sense desire we've talked about,

And also one of them is doubt.

This type of chitta-seeker,

It's like,

It's almost the wrong frequency for being able to develop our own understanding.

So it works in a way of obscuring the possibility of our mind becoming clear in these areas of understanding things directly,

Understanding things how they really are.

So what happens in Buddhist practice is,

You know,

Of course when we start Buddhism we don't have any direct experience usually of these different types of knowledges such as the insights into impermanence or Anatta or Dukkha.

But as long as the mind of doubt or the chitta-seeker of doubt is there,

It's like we can't get any experience of those things.

It prevents us being able to see them directly.

So when I remember when I was thinking about this,

I remember reading some stories about during the Buddha's time,

There were occasions where the Buddha would meet a group of people and he would give a teaching.

And I remember even one occasion there was a town he went to and he gave a teaching and everybody there was like 500 people.

They all got to the first level of enlightenment from one teaching.

And there's other times in the Buddha's sutras where it talks about the Buddha gave a teaching to somebody and almost immediately they came to some good level of awakening.

So basically for that to happen,

This chitta-seeker of doubt must not be there.

For those people,

For that to happen,

They couldn't have that chitta- seeker of doubt.

Because if the chitta-seeker of doubt was there,

They could listen to the Buddha for 24 hours straight and they wouldn't get any awakening.

Because the possibility of awakening is cut off by this chitta-seeker because it doesn't allow any direct knowledge of the Dharma.

So as we practice Buddhism,

It's possible for us to,

If we understand about being aware of doubt,

And how doubt manifests,

And being suspicious,

If we can recognise what it looks like and be suspicious of it rather than listen to it,

It's actually like a saboteur that will prevent us from understanding something.

And if we continue to practice well,

Gradually we can abandon that.

It's a defilement.

It's just like any other defilement,

That by not following,

By finding out the opposite and practicing that,

Gradually that defilement can be reduced.

And at some point we can access the opposite,

Which is the wholesome chitta-seeker,

Which is called saddha in Pali,

Which is confidence.

Now confidence has a totally different flavour,

Or a different taste in our mind.

And it's like where we have a natural wholeheartedness towards the Dharma.

It's like a natural,

Thirst is maybe the wrong word,

But it's like an eagerness,

A wholeheartedness to learn the Dharma,

To practice the Dharma.

So it's like our mind is set up to,

We want to investigate,

We wish to learn,

We have a deep wish to learn the Dharma,

And we have like a respect for the Dharma,

Because this mind of confidence,

It's like a clear channel.

It hasn't got a lot of noise on it.

It's actually open to understand what the Dharma is.

So that mind is the right foundation for us to learn the Dharma.

And if we try to learn the Dharma before we've accessed that,

It's not easy to learn directly,

To experience directly.

So often this is one of the obscurations that we have to remove for our mind to be able to access Dharma directly.

So there are minds that have a great capacity for understanding the Dharma directly through insight.

You could also say intuition,

But insight is really the word we use in Buddhism,

Because it's where the mind directly understands something.

And at that point,

It's like there's no doubt,

Because you've seen for yourself.

It's like if someone describes something to you,

But you haven't seen it yet,

You're not sure exactly what they're talking about.

But when you actually see it for yourself,

There's no doubt.

Then you can say,

Well,

I've seen it.

I know what this looks like.

I've seen it myself.

So there's no room for doubt.

Confidence is really the basis on which we can have some sort of wholesome enthusiasm and wholeheartedness to learn the Dharma.

And as that confidence grows stronger,

It's like that channel of being able to hear the Dharma and understand the Dharma has become clearer and clearer and clearer.

It's like it's tuned in almost where there's like a respect for even the Dharma that you're hearing in the present.

If you have a respect for the Dharma that you're hearing in the present,

Your mind can go much more easily into the understanding of that Dharma.

Do you see?

It's like because Dharma is very deep,

So we could understand it at a very superficial level,

Which is better than not understanding it.

But it's not the whole scope or depth or level of understanding that's possible.

But as our confidence is stronger,

It's like our capacity to learn the real depths of what's Dharma.

On our mind,

We have this correct mental state to be able to really appreciate what we're hearing in its full significance,

Rather than just getting an intellectual sort of,

Yeah,

I sort of get it.

I get what he's talking about.

No,

This is a totally different type of understanding to that sort of intellectual appreciation or intellectual understanding.

It's where the heart really is changed by the information.

And this is part of the process of waking up.

It's not an intellectual reorientation of our thinking.

It's our heart is moved by the Dharma we hear.

And one of the main ingredients for that is the Chittasika of confidence,

Because it's like we're wholeheartedly on board to learn this stuff.

It's really important for us.

This is how the Chittasika of confidence,

And also it has confidence in the Buddha's enlightenment,

Confidence that the Buddha taught the correct path,

And that what he taught is correct.

It's actually describing the truth about nature,

The truth about ourselves.

So confidence has this sort of innate respect for Buddha and the teachings of the Buddha.

Doubt has this innate disbelief and lack of acceptance that these things can even be known,

Let alone that I want to learn.

So this is kind of how the two Chittasikas look.

So when you look at the list of unwholesome Chittasikas,

Which are listed from 1 to 14,

And wholesome Chittasikas,

You'll find the first unwholesome is doubt,

And the first wholesome is confidence,

Because you can't really enter into the Dharma with doubt.

So there's no path that follows on from the doubt in terms of the Dharma.

There's no Buddhist path accessible with the mind or the Chittasika of doubt.

You have to get the confidence to begin the path,

If you like,

To begin the real process of understanding the Dharma.

Confidence has to be there and doubt has to be gone at the level of this Chittasika.

It's a type of mental state of confidence that has to be accessed for the real authentic Dharma to follow on from that.

That's something that can only come through practice,

And through the right intention,

The right motive,

Which is that we're not practicing Buddhism because it's our tradition,

Or because it's our culture,

Or because somebody else told us to,

For those sort of reasons.

We're practicing it because we wish to find out for ourselves.

We wish to understand.

That's really the right motive for practicing the Dharma,

That we want to know directly for ourselves the way things are.

We want to understand our own nature.

So our motive is,

And also that we wish to understand how to be happy,

How to not suffer,

And not only for ourselves but for others.

So these are the sort of motives that lead to confidence,

Rather than other agendas which don't really uproot the doubt.

If you have the agenda that it's my custom or my family tradition,

There's nothing in there that can uproot the unwholesome secret of doubt.

But the right motive,

If you follow with sincerity,

It can.

It can uproot because you won't follow the doubt.

You're more interested in finding out for yourself than quibbling about having doubts about what the teacher says,

Or maybe karma doesn't exist.

It's like you've gone past that sort of level of sitting on a fence.

Confidence,

You're not on a fence.

Doubt,

You're sort of on the fence.

You're sort of half in and half out.

Bits of it you get,

Bits of it you don't get.

This is sort of like the way doubt manifests.

You can't really take a position.

Sitting on a fence is you're not really committed.

You're not taking a position.

You've got one foot on one camp and one foot on another.

It's like one part of you is going forward and the other part is going backwards.

That's doubt.

It doesn't give you any chance to plunge in enough to find out really what Buddhism is all about.

Doubt in that context is the hindrance.

So we'll just go around and get some feedback.

I'm sure you will come across these two mental states.

They're just normal kitapaks.

I'll come back to Simon to get his comments.

But yeah,

We'll go around.

Jenny,

How does this resonate with you?

Thank you,

Frank.

I recall the time when I first learned about Buddhism and the essence of it.

What gave me the initial confidence was the Four Noble Truths.

Reflecting on the Four Noble Truths gives my own personal experience.

I remember I was reading about it.

I said,

Oh,

Everything's impermanent.

I thought about it.

For me,

It was very true.

There's suffering.

There's unsatisfaction in life.

I reflect upon those things.

Whenever there's happiness,

Whenever there's high,

There's low.

There's a lot of that impermanence.

There's a lot of those different types of unsatisfaction that comes with life.

As I reflect upon those Four Noble Truths,

As a non-Buddhist,

That's very true.

So I want to hear more.

I want to learn more about this teaching.

So I came in with a curious mind.

It was an open mind.

Throughout the journey,

There was a point of question marks.

There were things I couldn't understand.

I was like,

Oh,

Okay,

That's interesting.

How would that work?

But I found that having that open mind,

And again,

As she reminded us,

It's going back to test it with our own personal experience,

That really helped.

So the confidence,

I think,

At this stage is quite high towards the Dharma teachings,

Pretty much.

I really believe in what has been taught.

But at the same time,

I still actively investigate through my own personal experience.

What I thought came up just then is that for those that come in to listen to this information without any other background information,

And they already have that doubt mind,

What are some of the ways that they can be more open-minded and overcome that foundation confidence that they might need,

Or open-minded need,

To listen more?

In that context,

You could say that there's healthy doubt and unhealthy doubt.

So healthy doubt is that you want to find out.

You have a doubt because you don't understand it,

Or because you didn't hear it before,

Or because it doesn't make sense.

But it doesn't stop you.

It doesn't mean that you have a passive resistance that you're not really going to hear,

Listen to it anymore,

Or you're going to shut down.

That sort of doubt which leads you to say,

Well,

I need to find out.

I need to investigate.

I need to check it out.

In fact,

The Buddha says you should check it out and investigate and test his words,

Like you would test a piece of material if it was really gold or was it fool's gold.

You have to go through that process.

So that doubt is actually just part of the process of making sense of things.

But it's open in the sense that it's happy to go and do the investigation.

It's not doing the investigation for the purposes of disproving what it's heard.

It's doing it with an open mind.

Maybe I would like to understand about this,

So I'm going to investigate and find out.

Is that really what happens?

Is it really like that?

Buddhism is an experiential learning process.

Even though we can understand intellectually about Buddhism,

The real learning is through experience,

Our own experience of our own mental states,

Our own mind,

Because we need to understand what's going on directly in our own mind,

Not just as a theory.

We need to be able to see the workings of our mind.

So this is through investigation,

Having our mind inside,

Which we learn the tools to do that through meditation.

We learn all of those tools which then enable us to do the investigations of our own mental states,

Our own mental properties.

So all of this,

You could say,

Comes from healthy doubt.

But unhealthy doubt is where it's like when the mind hears the truth,

It feels disturbed by it.

When the mind encounters the Dharma,

It discounts it automatically.

It just won't.

There's no openness towards that information.

It just reels back as if that's just another lie.

It's not open to even hearing what the meaning of those things could be.

It's like it stances that it doesn't accept those things before it's even got the full explanation.

It can never really get far in terms of understanding.

So that's not helpful there.

I really appreciate you explaining doubt in the depth that you have,

Because I've always been having a lot of self-doubt,

And it's a hindrance for me.

I can definitely see how liberating it is.

It stops you from going anywhere,

Really,

Because you don't have confidence,

And you always do what you feel confident you think,

What you're confident,

But actually it's not.

This mind is very ignorant,

I can see.

It does not give you any chances or hope to broaden your perspective.

Listening to you say the mind of confidence,

And I was thinking,

That's definitely something that I would love to have.

I can see how it can really be essential,

Not to say something you really need,

But it's something you can't not have if you want to progress along the Dharma path.

Thank you for explaining it in great depth.

Even that mind of confidence can manifest as refuge.

It's like a deep trust in the Buddha.

Maybe it doesn't necessarily start out like that,

But as it develops its strength,

It's like a deep reverence for the truth,

For the knowledges that are found in the Dharma.

So that mind can learn those things so easily,

Relative to the minds that don't have that quality yet.

Esther,

How did you go?

I've also struggled with a lot of doubt initially,

But again,

Like you've mentioned,

Gaining confidence through practice,

And also through practice,

And also I think over time you feel the difference,

You know,

Like,

How are you now,

And how were you before you followed the Dharma path?

So yes,

And also the thing that you said about healthy doubt,

That was very good as well,

Because I think we should never stop investigating,

Like we should have the openness to question,

And see things for ourselves as well,

So that was good as well.

And again,

The thing you've mentioned about the intention,

That you should have in the back of your mind,

You should know why you're doing it,

And that gives more clarity and confidence in the path.

So thank you for that,

That was really good.

Connie,

How are you doing?

I think it's a very good teaching.

It also reminded me that confidence in Dharma grows over time.

I think it's really the open-mindedness that helps to learn,

Especially at the very beginning,

When there is something that is very different to what we normally understood as,

Like from a very different perspective.

Our attitude towards the new concept,

It's very important.

I remember one thing that I did was,

It was very different,

What do I do with that?

Do I say no,

Or do I just accept it blindly?

And at that time I thought,

You know what,

I don't understand enough,

I'll just pack it aside for now.

And then as I go,

I understood a little bit more,

That gives me a better chance to investigate further.

And that was when I got the opportunity to grow further with what I heard initially.

And that also reinforced the notion of growing your confidence over time,

Because it's really not something that happens right at the moment when you hear something new.

So yeah,

Definitely a very interesting journey.

Yes,

So that's a good description you gave,

Because there are things,

Obviously,

Particularly in Buddha Dharma,

That we hear,

But we don't know.

We don't know,

We don't have a direct experience of those things.

So what's the healthy way?

I mean,

We're not in Buddhism,

It's not a dogma,

It's not like we just have to take it all on board,

Like it's all truth,

And we have to just accept it.

That's not the way of the Dharma.

You have to investigate,

And if there's something you don't know,

Then that's fine,

You just accept the fact that you don't know those things.

They may be true,

They may not be true,

You're not in a position to really say.

So it's like they go into the two hard baskets.

They're not deal breakers,

Usually,

Because there's so much that we have understood,

But there's stuff we don't understand.

And that happens quite a lot,

But we're not skeptical of it,

But we're not gullible either.

It's like we're not in either camp,

We're not just taking it on board,

Like blindly,

Because it's in the text,

I have to believe it.

Or we're not saying,

I just think it's wrong,

Because I can't understand.

It's like we're happy to just leave it,

Because it's not the time.

And maybe we'll never understand,

And that's still okay.

Much of what Connie has just said is what I was going to say,

And also I think it was Vince,

Or maybe it was Jenny,

Talking about having an open mind and the importance of that.

But I know for me,

I had had,

Quite over my life,

I've had a different spiritual journey in terms of religion and beliefs.

And one of the first things that I realised coming here was that I had to let go of everything that I thought to be true.

And that was hard,

And still hard,

To be honest,

At times.

And sometimes with teachings,

I just couldn't access any of it.

Because we know as learners that you have to access parts of your brain where you have knowledge and experience.

And I had no experience of some of the things that you were talking about,

So nothing to relate it to.

And I used to really grapple with that,

And almost have some negative self-talk about,

Why don't you understand this?

Are you not intelligent enough?

Or why don't you get this?

And that obviously is not helpful at all.

So I've learned to let that go and just,

Like you said,

Sort of let it sit there until there's a connection.

And so there's been a few times where I've had a connection or some kind of insight that it's like all the pieces fall into place.

The jigsaw puzzle fits for that section,

But there's all this part still to go.

So I've learned to be kind to myself,

But also to trust.

It's about trusting the Four Noble Truths and thinking about that,

And giving it time as well.

And there's a great freedom in letting go,

You know,

Of that doubt and of not needing to question everything and check on everything.

Just going,

It is,

You know,

That exists because it is.

And that's all there is to it.

And then it makes sense.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Yeah,

That was very good,

Ax.

Yes,

Because you took a position where it's like you were patient.

Things that you didn't understand,

Yeah,

They might have been challenging,

But you were prepared to stick at it.

And then at some point,

All of a sudden,

Some bits that weren't on your radar suddenly popped up,

And they made sense in a different way.

They made sense because they were some direct understanding.

Whereas before,

You had your thinking and your thoughts and your beliefs,

And the things didn't map in.

But by not being stuck on those,

You allowed the space to actually learn the thing directly.

And then the thing,

You know,

You could understand things,

And things made sense too.

So yeah,

It's very good.

Yeah.

And look,

In my life,

I have to be in control so much,

You know,

At home and at work and everything like that.

So sometimes it's really good to let go of that control,

And realise that I can't control,

You know,

Everything.

And even in terms of my learning,

Just let it happen.

Or let others guide me.

And yeah,

So that's been really good as well.

There is actually in Zen Buddhism,

A sort of approach that they use.

I've heard this from several teachers,

That they take a position which is,

I don't know.

Because normally,

We take the position where we trust everything.

We think,

You know,

We trust our own beliefs,

You know,

We follow them.

So they're a default thing that we just follow.

We don't have a distrust of our own belief systems.

And in a way,

That is itself the obstacle,

Because we're so enmeshed in one way of looking at the world.

We don't have a really openness about things.

So this is the teaching that you just start saying,

I don't know,

Instead of,

I do know.

And gradually,

It sort of releases the mind from being captive of your own beliefs.

And it gives you,

It's a form of letting go,

Isn't it?

It's a way of letting go.

And even I was,

I heard a,

Come in Mike,

A great teacher saying,

This is a really,

Teacher that's regarded as a great master,

Would also say that to themselves,

I don't know.

Because it's like to keep an open,

To keep a clear space,

That the views don't swamp us,

You know,

Because we're sort of so much,

We're listening to our views all the time,

Even unconsciously,

You know,

We see somebody,

And we have a whole lot of,

Like a drop down meaning,

Doesn't mean a sense of everything we think about them,

Everything we've heard about them,

And that's how we look at them through this drop down meaning.

And,

But,

You know,

Are we really seeing them?

You know,

Because this is historical data,

You know,

It's just,

We're looking at them like,

In a historical sense of what we think they might be.

And so this is our beliefs,

And our views,

And our opinions are so embedded in our perception of the world.

And,

And when we look at the world,

What we see is a reflection of all of these things,

You know,

If we believe,

If we have a,

If,

You know,

Whatever we're carrying in our mind,

Is what we connect to in the outside world,

We miss an enormous amount of things,

Because it doesn't map in.

You know,

I remember as a simple example,

When I need to build a new fence at my house,

Right?

So I've never thought about building fences,

I didn't have any preset,

You know,

This is the sort of fence I want,

I just didn't know,

Right?

So all of a sudden,

I became interested in fences.

And I'd be driving down the street,

I'd be looking at the fences there,

And the fences there,

Looking for the fence that would work for me,

Right?

And eventually I would find,

I found,

I don't know,

I can't remember what it was,

But obviously,

I come to a point where I decided what sort of fence,

But well after that point,

I was still noticing the fences,

Right?

I'd be driving along,

And it wasn't even important anymore.

But this is the way the mind filters out the data of the world we're passing through.

It's like our mind has agendas,

You know,

We like this,

We don't like this,

We're a mad keen supporter of,

You know,

This football club.

And it's like we filter out this mess to,

And what gets through is the things that resonate with these beliefs,

And these ideas,

And these views.

And all the other gear just is like,

Doesn't,

We don't have any real,

I don't want to say connection to it,

But it just doesn't register.

So it's like we've got a filtering system.

And this idea of I don't know,

Is really to push all that away,

To hold it at bay,

To give some space,

To hear things fresh as they are,

Not as our beliefs about them are,

Our historical analysis suggests they might be like this,

But actually to see them there as they are correctly.

And it gave,

In this teaching,

It gives the more chance of seeing things clear.

That's the idea of it.

And to override this habitual commentary that we run about everything that we're bumping into,

You know,

It's like we've got a,

An encyclopedia of commentary available to us.

Yeah.

Yeah,

I just wanted to add,

After hearing the discussion that reflect on the importance of patience,

Patience towards giving the method that we learn a real good try,

Give it time.

Because I know I was,

I was once someone that maybe like I was impatient,

And I'll try something,

I'll be like,

Oh,

There's a way,

There's a lot to evaluate,

And didn't give it a really good go.

And,

And this,

This topic also came up in my discussion with some of the other people that may hear,

You know,

For example,

Something like this,

Whether it's from Buddhist teaching or elsewhere,

They go like,

Oh,

It sounds like it works for some other people,

Let me give it a try.

And they give it like a go once or twice and be like,

Not sure.

And then they,

You know,

They discounted.

Yes.

And I don't think that's fair towards the tool.

And so I've learned that patience is very important to give a new way,

A good try.

And also,

Sometimes,

Maybe it may not work during a certain time.

And that that also varies.

And I also remember Buddha's,

His journey where he was,

He was in his,

You know,

Quest to,

To find the truth that he gave,

I don't know how many years,

But many years,

He gave one method to try until he really mastered it.

And then he heard that that doesn't still doesn't answer all my questions.

It was until that point,

He decided to look for something else.

So that's also another important lesson that I've taken away.

I think when I started practice,

And I was quite diligent,

It was like three years before I actually got any real,

Where I could understand anything in this way of knowing something for myself,

Like we'll just do meditation.

What did I find out nothing,

You know,

Just my teacher would always say,

What did you find out?

And I'd go,

I don't know,

I don't think I did find out anything.

And I could say some things,

But they weren't really,

I didn't really find out much.

But it took like three years before I could actually say,

Yeah,

I did see that.

And that that's something that I now understand really clearly.

Simon,

You've had experiences of Sada,

Confidence,

Isn't it?

So anyway,

You talk about it from whatever you wish to.

Yeah.

So doubt is,

First of all,

It's it's quite sneaky,

Because it's not overt,

Like irritation is overt,

And flurry of mind is overt,

Whereas doubt,

It's like you can be kind of calm,

But have doubt and not really realise it.

So that's one thing to be mindful of.

But what,

But it's as bad as all the other hindrances,

In terms of its effect,

Because what it does is this prevents the student from engaging with the teaching.

Because if you've got doubt,

And someone says to you,

You know,

Take five precepts,

You're just not going to give it a give it a try,

Even before you start,

Because what doubt does,

Is erodes the position into right and you can't move forward if you don't have a position to start with and try.

So doubt never lets you begin,

Because it won't allow you to commit to what the advice you're getting from the teaching.

So no doubt,

Is so much easier.

So it's much,

It's a relief,

Because you don't have to go through this process of is this right?

Is this not right?

You actually don't have to do that.

You can just try something straight away.

And because you don't have any doubt,

It will have an immediate effect.

So you can actually get the power because it's not being reduced by the unwholesome of doubt.

So you become your progress is much faster when you are not having to go through this extra step of is this work?

Is this going to work?

Is it right for me?

Is this correct?

To give you an indication of how doubt can really erode and be a problem for you is that Ajahn Sumedho's got the story about,

Ajahn Sumedho's teacher was Ajahn Chah,

Very,

Very powerful master and widely acknowledged as such.

But he talks about having moments of the monks there who could not see what he was,

What the master was doing or teaching,

Even though that master is a world renowned,

Has everything that you can have.

And the students could not,

Could not accept teachings from them because they had doubt in their own mind.

So again,

Doubt reminds us that the obstacles are in our own mind,

Not out there,

Even though sometimes it makes it look,

Even though it makes it look like that.

But with no doubt,

You're able to accept what your teacher says to you and put it into practice straight away and it will work.

With doubt,

You've got to go through this extra long process of slowing things down and getting in your way.

And slowing things down,

It's kind of like it can be nitpicking or fault finding or,

Yeah,

You know,

Hedging your bets.

And like I said before,

You take one step forward and you can't go any further.

I remember it was feeling like you had one foot on the accelerator and the other on the brake.

Yeah,

It's like you can't get any power.

Yeah,

That's right.

Yeah.

Dharma,

You need to approach it in the right way to understand it.

And you need to have some sort of confidence and trust that you provide a mind which is inquisitive,

Interested,

And has some sort of wholesome wish to understand what you're being taught.

So it kind of clears the space of the doubt.

It prevents the doubt arising or it means you can discount the doubt rather than listening to the doubt,

Rather than nitpicking.

Nitpicking is doubt.

So then it's like you're emulating what confidence the Cheddar Seeker does.

It's like you're faking it till you make it.

You're emulating confidence until you actually can get the Cheddar Seeker of confidence rather than following the doubt.

You're trying to put something else in the place of doubt which is more like confidence.

The trust in the Dharma,

Trust in the teacher,

That sort of thing.

Then you see that doubt is like a saboteur that will just pose reasons against the thing that you're listening to or reasons against doing good.

You'll find it's like you find lots of reasons to not to not do these things.

That's what doubt does.

So you see doubt as a saboteur.

You see doubt as having no use.

It has no benefit.

There's nothing you can get out of doubt that's going to help you.

So it's empty of validity and usefulness.

This again is giving space in your mind to have a mind which can hear the Dharma.

It's to see that thinking and analysis can take you so far but it doesn't actually get you to understand the Dharma directly.

You can analyse things and that might help you understand intellectually the Dharma and how things might work.

But actually perceiving the Dharma in your own mind doesn't come from thinking.

Thinking can't do that.

It's to do with the type of mental state you've got that can see the Dharma.

You could understand the Dharma intellectually but that's not going to liberate you.

If you can get a direct insight it can be like a revolutionary change to the way you think about things or the way you can behave.

It can be a major transform shift in your understanding.

Whereas intellect it's like you're working with beliefs and your belief about things and the way you analyse things.

But we're trying to get beyond that system of beliefs and thoughts.

So we have to recognise that we have to be able to put down thinking,

Put down the normal concerns that the mind produces,

The normal concerns about who I am,

Am I able to do this,

Am I not able to do this,

All the noise and the stuff that our mind produces.

We have to see that learning the Dharma,

You can't learn the Dharma following those processes.

So this is all about creating a mind which is clear and is not stuck in views.

And this sort of mind can learn the Dharma directly.

That's what we're trying to do.

So then it becomes how do you manage your mind?

It's about training your mind to stay in the body,

To not run out through the senses,

To train the mind to be stable rather than jumping from one thing to another.

So there's one-pointed meditation is the training for that.

So these factors are bringing the set of conditions to your mind that will make the mind very teachable in the Dharma and can learn the Dharma directly.

So that's what we're trying to do as our approach to the Dharma.

It's like you have to approach the Dharma with the right conditions in your mind for the mind to be able to see things directly.

And from there,

When there's other conditions needed,

You have to have your precepts,

You have to have merit.

But basically this is the preparation of the mind that can understand the Dharma directly.

So do we have any other questions?

Simon,

You've got any comments?

What you said is really important to have that clarity and openness to be able to receive the teachings.

That's very powerful.

So you probably should try to do that as much as you can as a process before you start learning.

Yes.

Because we've got this idea that things sort of arise spontaneously and so on.

But in the Buddha Dharma,

We're trying to get to a position.

So we actually have to be explicit about the way that we approach the teachings.

So you've got to make an effort to explicitly,

You know,

If it could be as such,

I'm open and ready to receive the teachings.

Maybe you give your mind that instruction.

I have complete faith in my teacher.

You know,

These sorts of things,

Maybe you do this before any teaching too.

And that way,

Not only are you putting down whatever you've been on,

You're preparing your mind to receive the teachings in the best conditions possible.

You're bringing those conditions forward,

As opposed to just sort of waiting for them to come.

Yes,

There's an active preparation in the mind.

You can increase your teachability by assembling the right conditions in your mind.

And no one else can do that for you.

So that's good.

And one of the other components about Buddha Dharma is that we are trying to be the best students that we can,

So that we can actually learn from a very big range of opportunities.

Because the good student can learn from any situation,

And that's what we're trying to get to.

Good,

Thank you.

Okay,

We'll go around Brooke.

Just following on from what Simon's saying then,

I agree around the conditions.

So unwholesome doubt can really hinder your progress.

It absolutely stands in the way.

It's a saboteur.

It doesn't even give you a chance to get the right mental state.

So if you give in to that doubt and constantly have questions,

Then you're not going to make any progress.

You've got to make the distinction between wholesome doubt and unwholesome doubt.

There's nothing wrong with questions if they're part of an investigation into finding out.

But if they stop you from finding out.

But if they're like,

Yeah,

That's when it's an unwholesome doubt.

Because you know,

Sometimes you can ask questions where you're trying to align it to a belief that you have,

You know,

And it doesn't align,

Then that's stopping you from making this new understanding.

Yeah,

It is in a way.

Because you're trying to hear the thing fresh in the press,

Not trying to map it into something that you've had already.

Because that's another process.

It's like you're distracting yourself by trying to go into another direction.

It's not really giving it a fair go.

You've got to hear the thing with the right mind,

Especially if you've got the mind of confidence,

Then you hear it and you have a good chance you can understand it.

And then the mapping fixes itself.

You don't have to manually map anymore.

The new understanding brings you to the new understanding of how that fits,

Whether it fits with your old belief or not.

The old belief you might at that point jettison.

Well,

If you don't mind,

I'll share a really recent example.

In my mind,

I had a bit of an issue with one of the things that the Venerable said yesterday.

And I grappled with it and grappled with it.

And we talked about it this morning.

And someone said,

You have to let go of what you think.

And you just have to.

And I've done that.

And now I understand what he was actually meaning yesterday,

Because it allowed that doubt to go,

To drop.

It was around generosity to the homeless.

And I'd taken a fixed point of view on that.

Yes,

Based on my own thinkings,

Which are actually incorrect.

Right?

Yeah,

Right.

I can see that now.

So that's a quick turnaround.

But that would have prevented me from really getting anything out of what he said yesterday.

Yes,

The way the mind works and fixates.

Yes.

Had I not been able to get past that?

Yes.

So good.

Yeah,

That's really good.

Can that sometimes be Mara as well?

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you.

Connie.

I like that you talk about how developing mindfulness can help with developing confidence.

Yes.

So I see,

See the clear links where if we develop mindfulness in everyday living,

It's easier to have mindfulness sitting in a class,

Listening to the teachings.

Yeah.

And yeah,

I think that's,

That is one of the things that I kind of draw a link to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I remember our teacher used to say,

Prick up your ears like rabbits.

You know,

It sort of encapsulates this thing where you're,

You're ready,

You're right,

Right there,

You know,

Like a rabbit is listening for the,

You know,

He's listening for danger,

I guess he's listening for what is coming to eat him,

You know,

So he's really invested in being awake and being aware.

And his ears are sort of,

You know,

Like this listening to all the sounds.

So in a way,

That's a good indicator of how present you need to be and how open you need to be to the Dharma,

To be able to learn well,

Quickly.

Yeah.

Vivek?

Yeah,

I mean,

It was beautiful that you shared all the way to overcome doubt and so on.

First of all,

Again,

Having the confidence in the teaching is always important.

And sometimes doubt comes in many different ways.

Like,

Okay,

Maybe for this particular situation,

This teaching won't apply.

For example,

How do I practice compassion to this person who has always wronged me,

Always mistreated me,

And so on?

Maybe the compassion won't apply.

Yes.

But that's a doubt,

Right?

Yes.

So then,

Again,

Trying to find more wholesome ways of how do I practice compassion to this person?

So maybe there is other components,

Other tools that we need to use it,

Like letting go of things.

Practicing compassion doesn't mean that you have to really keep engaging with the person,

But may that person be happy in the way that person wants to be and not trying to understand that person from whatever way that person is behaving all the time.

But just letting the person be him or herself and wishing them well.

So maybe that's how I think doubt can just sneakily come in us and maybe I can't practice compassion to them or something like that.

Yeah,

It was good.

Thank you.

Esther.

It was good,

Frank.

Like you mentioned,

If our mind is prepared to receive the teachings,

Like even when coming to the Dhamma class,

Let's say,

If I have a more open mind and I'm more prepared,

Then I can receive the teachings better.

You get more of an understanding,

A better understanding.

Yeah.

I had a question about shraaddha.

What's the closest word for shraaddha in English?

Yeah,

There's words that we haven't used today that you could use because often some of the words in Dhamma have a particular meaning and the English word may not be exactly the right word for that meaning.

It might be a part of it,

But so to some extent you sort of have to find the meaning yourself,

You know,

Because the words will get you so far,

But maybe they don't give you the whole flavor or the whole understanding.

But if you work with the word,

For some people the word faith might be suitable and might help.

Trust or even we saw a definition earlier,

Clarity of mind with shraaddha.

But it comes from having the right view of the Dhamma,

Having the right appreciation,

Having the right attitude towards the Dhamma,

Which then brings about some clarity of mind.

So yeah,

It could be faith,

It could be confidence,

It could be trust,

Maybe for you it could be devotion,

You know,

It's about mapping.

There is such a thing called confidence,

Even though we might have the perfect word yet,

But we're trying to get the understanding of it directly in our mind.

What is this quality called shraaddha?

So it can be known,

The words are pointing the direction,

But maybe not even,

We don't maybe have the perfect word in English yet.

I'm a bit speechless because I kind of come to a realization where we often are blinded thinking the problem is outside of us,

But it's the lens that we've got that sort of distorts our clarity and to know that this is something we can do to fix the whole sort of,

Yeah,

It's very empowering to know that the matter isn't outside of us,

It's actually to do with our mind states and it's something that we can do to drop that,

To fix that,

To have a better toolkit to help us to see the world the way it is,

Rather than with the lens we've got,

Thinking what we're looking at is true and correct.

But everyone has the same,

I mean,

Everyone looks at the same situation,

They have very different views,

So we know by that everyone has their own perception of what the truth is,

But that isn't necessarily true.

So to have the dharma is to know that there is something that is inside of us that we can use rather than to rely on something that was never really a good tool to use.

It's very liberating to know.

Mike,

Do you have any comments or reflections?

Well,

You said,

I thought that maybe you could put more emphasis on the fact that we need to understand through our intellect first.

Yes,

True.

We need to get something very clear along those lines.

Yes.

So we need to,

You know,

See clearly with our intellect.

Yes.

And then do the practice and then we get the insight.

Yeah.

Yeah,

That's true.

I don't want to diminish the role of the intellect,

But it's just to know that it can take you so far,

But if we keep holding that as our method,

It becomes an obstacle.

Yeah,

That's not the goal.

No,

But not to diminish the fact we need the intellect to do the understanding,

To do the analysis,

To do the investigation,

All needed.

But with regard to seeing something directly,

It doesn't do that job.

So at some point we have to be able to put down the views and opinions.

That's the distinction,

But I'm glad you pointed it out like that.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Jenny?

Another example of doubt that came up in my mind was that sometimes as a person learning Buddhism newly,

And then because I've gone through that part of the journey as well,

That I was more questioning how do I verify what was taught,

What was written in the books is actually true,

That was historically taught by the actual Buddha back then.

So that was some of those doubts that also came up.

I was trying to investigate,

Read a lot.

And in the process,

I realised that there was a lot of things,

And maybe it is really not possible to truly verify,

But at the same time,

What is more important is that the combination of,

I guess,

With the teaching,

With the information we hear,

We really verify within ourselves against that repeated testing.

And then Buddha also said it's not to worship or to follow a person,

It's more to follow the teaching.

And then the teaching is very viable,

And it's through the experiment,

Experiential experiences.

And then also recognising that when,

That's from what I heard,

When he was teaching,

He taught according to the individual circumstance,

He really tailored a lot of the information and teaching to the different individuals in the groups at the time.

So to recognise that there are many ways to actually try for ourselves,

As maybe some ways may or may not work for certain temperaments or individuals,

We shouldn't discount them as well,

We should keep it open,

Because there's such diverse range of personalities and people.

That's another thing that I thought of and just wanted to reflect and share.

Because I see students all the time who just,

They will not understand it because they're telling themselves that they don't.

But they don't recognise that this process is happening.

Because our minds are very,

Our minds do what we tell them to do.

And often we tell our minds sort of negative things without really realising.

So I guess we need to learn to be okay with our immediate reactions.

If you're not understanding something to just don't touch that,

Because it's hot,

You know.

And if you reiterate that,

Then you will not understand what's being.

So it's about being okay in that space of being uncertain,

Knowing that you can overcome it eventually.

It's almost being patient with not understanding things rather than going to doubt.

Yes,

Yes,

That's correct.

Because it's natural to not understand these things,

Because we haven't developed the qualities that we need yet.

So whilst we're not understanding,

That's also okay.

We just have to be prepared to have the confidence to persist and to accept at the moment,

I haven't got those conditions,

But I know I can work towards that.

That's right.

And so,

You know,

We've got,

You know,

This is mindfulness of self-sacrifice,

But also this is the sending yourself metta to reassure that everything is okay and not like missing out on something that you might,

And so on and so forth.

Okay,

So this has been the last of the five hindrances that we've been talking about.

And so,

You know,

Buddhist practice isn't just in terms of seeing things in terms of hindrances.

We also do courses where we talk about the perfections and the things that we have to develop in Buddhism,

Which are the antidotes to the hindrances.

So in another sense,

We could have done a course on the five antidotes to the hindrances,

Which would be generosity,

Mindfulness,

Friendliness,

Loving kindness,

And so on.

So that's talking about the same thing from the point of view of what do we need to cultivate so that we improve,

So that our capacity to learn is developed in us,

And our ability to become clear and bright,

And the skills that we need to develop that help us operate in our daily lives in a way that's wholesome,

Not unwholesome.

So we do these courses as well.

And if people who are watching these teachings wish,

There will be other teachings that we will put online,

Which talk about the cultivation of the elements of the Buddhist path,

And how they can bring us to improve our mental health,

To develop our well-being and happiness,

And then even to start to attain some of the levels of enlightenment and understanding that are possible through Buddhism.

So thank you for coming to our classes.

We appreciate that we have an audience with no audience,

No teachings.

So we're all doing this together.

So okay,

So we'll do the dedication,

Please.

And also thank you to Amita,

Who is our abbot and teacher.

So we appreciate your guidance always.

Thank you to the teachers.

May the merits made by me,

Now or at some other time,

Be shared among all beings here,

However many there be.

May the merits made by me,

Now or at some other time,

Be shared among all beings here,

However many there be.

May the merits made by me,

Now or at some other time,

Be shared among all beings here,

However many there be.

May this merit approve to my mother and my father.

May they be happy.

May this merit approve to all my relatives.

May they be happy.

May this merit approve to all ancestors.

May they be happy.

May this merit approve to my teachers and my preceptor.

May they be happy.

May this merit approve to all gods.

May they be happy.

May this merit approve to all hungry ghosts.

May they be happy.

May this merit approve to all heavenly beings.

May they be happy.

May this merit approve to all beings.

May they be happy.

May this gift of merits help all beings.

Know the path,

Realise the path,

Follow the path.

May this gift of merits help all beings.

Know the path,

Realise the path,

Follow the path.

May this gift of merits help all beings.

Know the path,

Realise the path,

Follow the path.

May I be well and happy.

May you be well and happy.

May all beings be well and happy.

May I be well and happy.

May you be well and happy.

May all beings be well and happy.

May I be well and happy.

May you be well and happy.

May all beings be well and happy.

So just spend a few moments to dedicate the merits you have made this morning to something that is going to be beneficial for you on the path.

Do that three times so that it is explicitly embedded in your karmic stream.