Codependency & Loneliness - Insight Timer Live

This is a recording of an Insight Timer Live from May 2021. In this talk and guided shadow work exploration, Catherine explains codependency as a dynamic originating in our earliest experiences of maternal bonding, and as an imprint in our nervous systems. Early on, our bodies got the message that in order to be loved, we could not be fully authentic. She then shares how we can gently open to greater self-definition and expression while in a relationship as a way of actually deepening intimacy.

Transcript

So we're here today on insight time or live talking about codependency and loneliness.

And some of you might have wondered why I paired those two together.

And for some of you,

Perhaps it's quite clear.

Because as I'll get into in a few minutes,

If you identify as codependent,

I guarantee you that there is part of you that is deeply,

Deeply lonely,

Both in your intimate partnerships,

And also just in the world at large in your relationships with other people.

So I asked my I asked the group here before I started this recording to share with us ways that you know that you are codependent.

So I'm going to go ahead and see what some of you said here.

And I got so many responses.

Thank you.

So else as I have a tendency to fix rather than listen when someone tells me their problem.

Renee says I suspect it because I have a very hard time being alone definitely feel like I engulf my partners.

Yeah.

Shan says approval seeking even though I know better.

I know we all know better,

Right?

Loretta says I look for approval from others.

Dana says try to be controlling.

Yeah,

Leslie says putting others first not even knowing or realizing what I would prefer.

Yeah.

Mariam says I was a victim of childhood extreme abuse and domestic violence and I am free four years and healing.

Oh,

Thank you for sharing that.

You are in my heart.

Donna says putting others needs before mine.

Ben says when I focus on what my partner needs more than what I need.

And lose myself in the process.

Yes,

I use as expect the other person to solve my problems and the other expects me to solve their problems.

Ellie says patterns of loneliness and not feeling fully seen.

Kelly says people pleasing and looking outside myself for love.

All right.

So I'm seeing over and over again.

Like I lose myself.

Right.

I don't feel seen.

I lose myself.

I try and control the other person.

I engulf myself and the other person.

Martha says difficulties to say no because I'm afraid of not being accepted.

Well,

You guys are just like doing this live for me.

So the question was,

Again,

For those of you who are just joining,

How do you know that you're codependent?

How do you suspect that you have these tendencies?

So I'll go ahead now and hi,

Catherine,

By the way.

Yay.

I'll go ahead now and share with you a little bit about how I personally have come to understand codependency also as a recovering codependency.

I personally have come to understand codependency also as a recovering codependent person myself.

So first of all,

The I'll share more.

Don't worry.

I'll share some juicy stories with you all.

Hang in there because I always do that.

So first of all,

That the term I feel like anyone who's talking about codependency has to do some backpedaling about the term codependent because it's very misleading because when we when we see the term codependent,

It makes it sound like you're too dependent on someone where actually it couldn't be further from the truth of what codependency actually is.

And so I wish it had a different name because there's so much misunderstanding and confusion about what codependency is.

So basically,

So codependency can have many flavors,

Right,

Like each and every one of us has our own specific kind of it.

It can be a dynamic that's part of abusive situations,

But it doesn't necessarily mean that there's abuse in the in a codependent dynamic.

It is a kind of relationship dysfunction.

And unfortunately,

Dysfunctional relationships are the norm rather than the exception right now in the world.

So if you're codependent,

Join the club.

I meet very few people.

And again,

Like because of my line of work,

I encounter folks who are seeking healing,

Right?

So take that into account.

But I know very few people both in my work life and personal life who don't identify with that.

I don't identify with being codependent in some way.

So what codependency means is that I can't have both me and you too.

I can't be all of who I am and have you too.

I have to change my behavior somehow in order to be loved and accepted by you.

And this comes from our earliest conditioning.

So it might be tempting to think about,

For example,

If we're like myself as a heterosexual cisgender woman,

Like it might be tempting to think about like,

Oh,

My relationship issues are dad issues.

That's actually not usually the case,

Usually our very earliest attachment that is with our mothering parent,

With our primary caregiver,

The person who fed us that dynamic is what teaches us what love means at the most foundational level.

So just take a breath and take that in because that I know that that was new information for me.

This is something that my own therapist shared with me.

And it rocked my world because I'd been going about my life,

Basically mapping my dad issues onto my relationships,

But actually our Yeah,

Our particularly our intimate partnerships,

Our reflections of our mothering parent attachment connection.

So,

And this may or may not make sense in your mind.

But as we do our exploration later,

I think it might make sense in your body.

So we will definitely do some very direct exploration of that if you feel called to join us in that later.

So as a human being,

Our primary need is connection,

Right?

We're some of we're like as as children as young,

We are the most dependent of any species on Earth,

Right?

It takes us the longest to become self sufficient.

We are utterly and completely dependent on our parents,

Our caregivers,

We,

We need them,

We come out way too soon from the womb,

Like,

We're not going to be able to do that.

And part of the reason that we do,

In addition to like,

Our skull size being big in relationship to the female pelvis size,

Right?

Is that our body is so dependent on our parents,

Our caregivers,

We are so dependent on our parents,

Our caregivers,

We are so dependent on our parents,

Our caregivers,

That we do,

In addition to,

Like,

Our skull size being big in relationship to the female pelvis size,

Right?

Is that humans have survived through adaptation through being,

Like terrifyingly good at adapting,

Right?

Through enculturation,

We adapt through learning from our caregivers,

What it means to be human in a particular circumstance in a particular environment in a particular culture,

Right.

And so I think this is my own kind of personal theory that one of the reasons that we come out of the womb so much premature is related to our success and adaptability that we we just soak up so much culture from our caregivers.

And,

Like I know,

I'm the mother of a 21 month old,

Gabriella,

And it's just it is freaky how to a T she imitates us,

She just is soaking everything up from our facial expressions to our words,

To the way we stand,

The way we walk.

It's just incredible.

So we absorb what we learn from the earliest earliest age,

I believe even in utero,

Particularly about how how to get that connection need met.

How do we get connection because we need connection to survive because we're so so dependent,

We need to feel connection to our caregivers to survive.

And connection to a young person means approval,

Approval,

Love attention,

It's all kind of the same right to a child.

And so if you experience codependent dynamics as an adult,

It meant that as a child,

You had to choose connection over authenticity.

And sometimes you had to choose connection over safety.

If you were in an abusive situation.

Yeah,

So that's,

That is something to take a breath into how that lands with you if did you have to choose connection over authenticity at the expense of your authenticity.

And I want to make it clear that we all have to to some extent,

Right?

It is inevitable that when my daughter screams at the top of her lungs,

I'm going to react in a certain way,

Right?

If my daughter's screen like I'm doing my best to be non reactive and present and mindful as a parent,

Right?

But it's inevitable.

If she screams or if she hits me,

You know,

Without meaning to hurt me,

But toddlers do this,

Right?

If she has a big reaction,

My body,

My nervous system will respond.

So I want to make it clear that each and every one of us has to choose connection over authenticity to a certain extent.

But it's a matter of where you are on the continuum.

And I'm going to be giving a lot of examples of this because I know that it might be a kind of a vague concept.

So hang on,

Ben.

So for example,

So I'll just give I'll just give some examples from my own life.

So when I so I grew up with two parents who struggled with undiagnosed,

Untreated mental illnesses of varying kinds.

And you know,

My dad is on the spectrum is high functioning on the autism spectrum.

And there were the way his autism manifest is that if I did anything that was outside of routine,

Or if I did anything that wasn't honestly like perfect,

Or the very certain way that it needed to be,

I would get harshly criticized or the silent treatment.

You know,

So that meant that I couldn't like in our household,

Like,

I couldn't make sounds when I ate food.

So at the dinner table,

Like I had to be totally silent,

And I had to learn how to eat my food without making mouth noises.

And so that's so I grew up to be an adult who's well with a host of issues.

But one of them being this hyper vigilance about always looking to see what the other person is thinking of what I'm doing,

Right?

Are they being bothered by me being loud right now?

Oh,

So I bet.

So I just unconsciously formed my personality to always be looking outside to what the other person needs and wants from me,

For example,

To be silent,

To to be present and supportive,

Certainly not ever to get angry.

Certainly not ever to make big noises,

Certainly not ever to have inconvenient feelings,

Right?

Yeah,

I know that a lot of people who resonate with my work can resonate with that story too.

So that's just one example.

I mean,

There are so many examples are like,

You know,

My mom struggled with undiagnosed anxiety for my whole childhood and,

And is just now at the in her mid 70s,

Realizing that she has anxiety,

You know,

And so her whole so I picked up as being the sensitive being that I've always been I picked up on her the fragility of her nervous system.

And so of course,

I was an easy child,

You know,

No tantrums ever.

I didn't have any tantrums,

You know,

Sometimes I would run away.

But like at a park or something,

But I wouldn't have any tantrums wouldn't have any anger,

Right?

So I chose connection,

I chose,

Like alignment with my mom,

For example,

Over expressing that anger,

Because,

Because,

I mean,

Anger,

And I teach whole classes about this.

So there's a lot I could say about anger.

But anger is an extremely healthy mammalian response of our nervous system.

We don't choose whether our body feels anger,

We choose how we react out of that feeling,

Right?

But we can't choose like anger as a physiological response,

Like of heart rate increasing a sense of heat in the body of the activation of our upper extremities to go into fight response.

It's a it's a function of our nervous system,

We can't we don't have control over the anger we feel,

Again,

But we do have control over how we respond out of that feeling,

Right.

So my system as a child,

Just like anyone's right was was getting signals of anger that something was unfair that something I valued was in jeopardy,

Right,

Like those are what trigger feelings of anger.

And so what did I do,

I develop chronic tension in my upper body,

And in my jaw that I still have to this day and that I'm I'm gently working through now.

So I became a jaw clencher.

That's where that physiological response ended up in my body.

It's not that I didn't have the anger.

It's not that we don't have anger.

It's do we do we learn that it's safe to express it or not.

And if we can't express it,

It becomes embedded in our system,

It becomes a physical symptom in our body.

And there is more and more amazing research about this.

This is not woo woo.

This is neurophysiology,

Which is an amazing emerging field.

And you should look it up if you're curious.

So yeah,

So just take a breath.

Yeah,

And to all that that I just shared,

There was a lot.

So these are all ways that these are all examples of how we might have developed that codependent patterning.

In other words,

How we might have learned that we needed to sacrifice the fullness of our expression in order to be loved.

In order to stay in connection or to be in relationship.

And all I mean,

It was it was just a few years ago,

That I even had an inkling of what it could be to be myself and in relationship at the same time.

Like I'm serious,

Everyone,

Like,

I mean,

I've been doing intensive personal growth work for 20 years.

But it was only I want to say like three and a half,

Four years ago,

That I began to really unravel my own codependency and powerfully start to be able to define myself while also getting closer to my partner at the same time.

Does that sound impossible to you?

Defining the self while still getting even closer to your partner at the same time.

Yeah.

And so let me share a juicy,

A juicy story from my marriage.

Pre marriage actually.

And this is this is a story that I wrote up in one of my email newsletters.

So I,

I share juiciness in my email newsletter.

And this is the story.

This is like the email that when I look at my statistics that has the most engagement of any email I've ever written,

And I got the most feedback about this email than I've ever gotten about any email before.

And so here's the story.

The story is that I think it was 2017.

And I've been dating my current husband Carlos,

For I don't know,

Maybe nine months,

Or something like that.

And at the time he was doing a remodel on the house on his house.

And he's like a really enthusiastic guy.

And he's a creature of the present moment.

And he just like goes with,

With his inspiration when he's inspired.

So,

So we had plans to hang out,

You know,

We weren't living together yet.

We had plans to hang out,

Let's say like on a Saturday or something.

And so I showed up at his door,

Like at the time that we agreed to hang out,

You know,

I showed up at his door.

I didn't hear anything for a while.

And then here comes Carlos,

And he shows up to the door.

He's covered in like drywall dust.

And he just looks at me with these like deer in the headlights eyes.

And he had stayed up the entire night working on the remodel.

And he'd completely forgotten that we had plans that day.

And so here is the moment of truth,

Right?

So I'm looking at Carlos,

And what does my nervous system do?

What does my conditioning do?

I start to backpedal and I start to take responsibility for the misunderstanding myself.

And I start to say things like,

And this is just my system.

This is my knee jerk reaction.

I start to say things like,

Oh,

My gosh,

I should have texted you to confirm I'm so sorry.

I'll just you know,

You just finished working on what you're working on.

Like,

So I was just I was just taking it on,

Right?

It didn't even occur to me to feel frustrated at him.

It didn't even occur to me that it could be his fault,

Right?

That he that he really could have set up a reminder or maybe not stayed up,

You know,

The whole night before we had plans like it did not even occur to me.

And so here's why I married this guy.

What he did is he very kindly and very gently just looked at me.

And he put his hands on my shoulders.

And he said,

Sweetheart,

You get to be frustrated with me.

I f'd up he used the full word.

I f'd up.

You get to say that you're frustrated with me.

And I just looked at him.

And I was just like,

Like,

Like does not compute,

Like,

Like my,

My system was just going kind of crazy.

And I had never experienced that from a partner before in my life.

And,

And here's where it gets even better,

Everyone.

It gets even better.

He had his hands on my shoulders.

He's and he could see that I was just going kind of nuts inside,

Like trying to,

Like,

Trying to figure out what was going on with this strange situation,

Right?

He just looked at me,

And he could see that I was having such trouble with this.

And he said,

He said,

Like,

Can you just try this out with me right now?

Like,

Can you just say like,

I'm frustrated with you.

And you got you guys I was like,

I just looked at him.

And I was like,

I'm like,

I couldn't even look at him.

And,

And then he just he just looked at me and he was so gentle,

But so so present and so powerful in that presence.

And he said,

Like,

I'll say it with you.

Okay,

Let's say this together.

I'm frustrated with you.

And so he like so and this guy is a software developer,

Like he's not like,

He's not a therapist,

He's not he doesn't even identify as like,

He's not like into like personal growth,

Even or anything.

But he lives it,

Right?

Like he walks the talk.

And this is why I married this guy.

So he coached me through saying I'm frustrated with you.

And I was shaking.

I couldn't look him in the face.

It was the first time in my entire life that I had said anything like that to anyone,

To anyone,

A partner,

A co worker,

Anything.

And I eventually spit it out.

I was like,

I'm frustrated with you.

And then he coached me into saying it just a little bit louder,

Like there wasn't any forcing happening,

Like,

It was very gentle.

And,

And to this day,

Like,

We just have like,

I learned I learned how to stand up for myself and set boundaries.

And I did a lot of study and continued practice and learning with him.

And I learned that I was a little bit more of a co dependent,

But I was still a little bit more of a co dependent.

So that's just an example of how I overcame my own my own co dependent patterning.

And again,

Like,

This might not be your form of co dependency,

Right?

I think it's it's something that a lot of people can relate to this,

Like not being able to set a boundary,

Not being able to like over apologizing,

Taking things on.

Co dependency,

Again,

Can take many different forms.

And this is just how I personally experience it.

Yeah.

So let me just check out my notes here to see if I'm if I'm missing anything.

Yeah.

So let's let's talk about how how loneliness figures into this.

So if we're not showing up as ourselves,

We're going to feel lonely,

Right?

If we're if we're in partnership,

And we have this feeling that we have to be a certain way in order to be loved,

We're not showing up to be loved,

We're not showing up to feel real belonging.

And so there's always going to be part of us that feels completely unseen,

Because it is we're not presenting that part to be seen,

We've learned it's unsafe to present that part to be seen.

And maybe you don't even know what that part of you would be.

But you just have some vague sense that there's part of you that you're holding back in order to be in in relationship with someone else.

Yeah.

And and yes,

Like Jessica says,

This supplies your friendships just as much as romantic relationships.

Absolutely.

You're going to see this dynamic across the board,

It just happens to usually be most intense for us in intimate,

In intimate partnerships.

Because those intimate partnerships are they become those people become our primary attachment figures.

And so it directly triggers our most fundamental attachment programming,

In other words,

Our maternal bonding programming.

And again,

That might not have been to a to a mother could have been to a caregiver or a mothering parent.

Yeah.

So if you have codependent patterning,

Yeah,

You're going to feel this across the board in your own ways,

And you're going to feel deeply lonely.

So ways as a parent that I strive to help my daughter have the least programming possible in this respect is when she's having a big emotion,

And she's a toddler.

And so there are storms and she's a she has four planets and Leo the moon and Pluto and Saturn and Capricorn.

So she's like,

She's a big personality,

And she's amazing.

And she has big huge emotions.

And like the other day,

She was having a tantrum and she was screaming at the top of her lungs and I was holding her right so like,

I couldn't do anything differently.

But I'm so conscious of my own nervous system.

When she's having her big emotions,

And I take deep breaths and I regulate myself.

And I just say yes,

Like you feel you feel really scared right now or like,

It sounds like you're really sad right now and I just hold her and she has her feelings right?

I would never tell her to not feel her feeling or to stop crying,

Or to not get angry.

Right?

We talk about feelings and I have all these techniques and like games and stuff that I use to to help her identify her feelings.

Excuse me.

So basically that I'm extremely aware that my own nervous system is teaching her what's safe and what's not safe to feel.

In other words,

Like,

What's safe to be because our feelings our emotions are just our energy moving through our body,

Right?

So whenever if I were to shut down her emotions,

I'd be shutting her down.

And I would be teaching her to put that part of herself in shadow,

In other words to keep it repressed.

So Alex,

You said your partner,

Your last partner was codependent when when you would speak out about things that were hurting you,

It would cause him to close up more and you didn't know what else to do.

Yeah.

So part of the codependent patterning is you fellow was your responsibility,

It sounds like to help him feel safer.

When in fact,

That's completely his responsibility to learn how to regulate himself and feel safer,

Right?

But we're not brought up that way.

Most of us.

I mean,

I had a most some of you.

Some of you will remember this story,

It'll just be really brief.

But so I dated a narcissistic guy and codependency and narcissism and like empaths dating narcissists and like the codependent dynamics.

That's classic,

Right?

So a lot of empaths identify as codependent.

And a lot of empaths are codependent.

What did I say?

Did I say that a lot of empaths date nurses love empaths are codependent.

And so that's a really Oh,

Catherine,

You know,

Bagel gate,

You know,

It's coming.

Yeah.

So again,

There's so much we could talk about.

But I want to get to the practice very soon.

So you can experience this,

But I do have to share bagel gate.

So bagel gate.

And Kelly,

It sounds like maybe you can relate to this.

So we'll see.

Congratulations,

By the way,

On getting out of that.

So I,

I dated this guy,

I didn't date him for very long.

But I moved in with him way too fast.

And we were both,

You know,

Like leaders in this particular community,

Like expressive arts community.

And we were just about to go to an event.

And I was in the kitchen making myself a bagel.

And,

And then we were getting ready to go,

We got in the car.

And this guy completely he stonewalled me,

He literally stopped looking at me or talking to me or responding to any of my questions.

And I had no idea why.

And at this whole public event,

That we were at together,

Where we were both leaders,

He did the same thing.

He totally gave me the silent treatment in front of our entire community.

Okay.

And then we get back home.

He's still stonewalling me and I just I sit down with him.

And I'm like,

And of course,

Like,

I'm the one trained in nonviolent communication.

And I'm the one who's healing this wounded child man.

And I have this narrative about the relationship,

Right.

And I just sit down with him.

And I was like,

So I see that I see and I was way too compassionate.

I see that you're not responding to me.

And I,

I'm wondering what that what that's about.

Can you share with me,

You know,

Why why you're not responding to me,

I should have just said,

F you,

I'm leaving,

Right.

But anyway,

He so so here's why it was and it took me a while to get it out of him.

Because he was in toddler mode,

He was toddler mode,

He had developmentally regressed the toddler at that time,

Right.

So anyway,

The reason that he had stonewalled me is because when I was in the kitchen making a bagel,

I didn't ask him if he wanted a bagel to.

That was the whole reason behind the silent treatment in including in front of our entire community.

It was because I didn't ask him if he wanted a bagel,

You know,

God forbid,

He would have asked me to make him a bagel.

So this idea that like,

We have these tacit,

Unspoken assumptions and expectations of our partner,

That we,

We somehow don't communicate that's that is endemic to codependent and often narcissists,

Relational dynamics,

Right.

Yeah.

So I'm glad it's helpful,

Jen.

Yeah,

So so obviously,

This guy was had the emotional,

The emotional development of a toddler.

And that's what most narcissists have,

Right?

Narcissists are the way they are usually because of extremely intense trauma that they experienced when they were about that age when they were a very young child.

And so it becomes impossible for narcissists to put themselves in anyone else's shoes,

Right to see the perspective of anyone else.

Yeah.

All right.

So anyway,

Examples,

Example after example of my own codependent tendencies in the past.

So I want to help all of you.

I mean,

There's,

There's so much.

There's so much we can say about this.

And I know there's there's more comments.

And again,

We can totally continue this conversation in the in the shadow work circle.

So remember that there's a group on insight timer.

Let's a circle.

It's called shadow work.

I'm the admin of it.

And it's where we connect and share and continue conversations between the live events.

So join the shadow work circle if you want to stay connected.

Yeah,

And Catherine just wrote it down there.

So thank you.

All right.

So I do want to do a brief practice with everyone.

Because it's so because like,

Because this is in our body,

Right?

So codependency,

Like,

The reason that I dropped out of school for counseling psychology,

So I was in graduate school for counseling psychology,

And I dropped out,

Because I was so frustrated that the body wasn't included,

Because before I had gone to counseling school,

I was already a certified trauma informed yoga and mindfulness teacher.

And I knew about neurophysiology,

And like,

How psychological patterns and dynamics and conditions are always related to body processes,

Right,

Like our physiological processes.

So we can't really talk about the whole story of these things without talking about the nervous system,

And without really tuning into our bodies experience.

So I want to do what I like to call a body check with you all.

So I'll just give you a brief overview.

So you can assess whether you want to participate or not.

What I'm going to invite you to do is imagine so first of all,

Get very comfortable.

And then imagine an individual with whom you had a codependent dynamic either presently or in the past,

It might be an intimate partner or really any kind of relationship.

And then we're I'm going to be asking you to pay exquisite attention to what your body is doing in their presence.

And then the invitation will be after we really land in that body sensation,

The invitation will be to ask your psyche to show you just as a first impression like your intuitive flash,

To show you another person earlier in your life that you had that with maybe the first person that you had that similar kind of body feeling with.

Or you could ask,

When's the first situation that I felt this in,

In my early life.

So if you're someone who's prone to anxiety or panic attacks or PTSD symptoms,

You might want to just listen today.

Or if you feel like you want to do this,

I invite you to now get really comfortable.

I do want to address one question before I start I saw that T said,

What's the difference between codependent and truly being understanding of a situation?

This is a really good question.

I want to address it before we start.

So the difference is where the responsibility lies.

So are you so when we let's say we're sitting down with someone like my bagel gate ex partner,

Right,

Sitting down with him,

I'm being so understanding of him,

Right.

So first of all,

I am taking full responsibility for for fixing the situation.

That is a sign of codependency.

I'm not I'm not acknowledging that it's actually completely his responsibility to regulate himself.

He is completely responsible for his emotional reactions.

It's not my responsibility at all to act a certain way so that he will act a certain way.

Right.

It's my responsibility to be myself.

And if he has a problem with anything that I do or say he needs to explicitly and directly tell me that is the adult,

Mature,

Interdependent,

Not codependent way of relating.

Does that make sense to you?

So number one,

I'm the one taking all the responsibility.

The responsibility is not shared as it should be between adults.

I should say the responsibility is not owned as it should be between adults.

And number two,

He is not using adult communication skills.

He's not directly expressing his feelings and needs and making behavior change requests.

Emily,

I don't see people one on one much anymore.

But I do have an online program and other stuff outside of insight timer and just go to my website on my teacher profile and you'll see you'll there's a link tree and there's there's a link to courses and stuff that I do there.

So yeah.

Anyway,

So T glad to hear that that answered your question.

Okay.

All right.

So and at the end of it after the practice,

I'm going to share some book recommendations and I'll also post those in the shadow work circle.

So if you if you're wanting to heal codependency,

I have some great books to recommend that have really helped me.

And Emily,

I can also recommend if you go to my website and send me an email through the contact form,

I can send you and this goes for everyone,

I can refer you to people I've personally trained to do shadow work,

Most of whom are licensed psychotherapists.

So anyway,

Let's get to the practice.

I know this is this this tells me there's just a lot of need for this topic out there.

So I'm going to talk more about it in my work for sure.

So thank you all for your for your sharing.

So again,

Assess if you want to do the practice with us today and I want to be respectful of time so it'll only be about 10 minutes.

So I'm going to be talking about 10 minutes.

But I will stay after for about 10 to 15 minutes if anyone needs extra support or has additional questions.

All right.

So let's go ahead and get comfortable.

And we're just going to now do a little quick shadow work exploration really diving into getting curious about our body sensations in the presence in the imagined person with whom we have experienced codependent dynamics.

So if you're wanting to do this practice now just go ahead and close your eyes if you feel comfortable with that.

And really bring into your mind the imagined presence of this person and look at them now.

Really feel that they're right here in front of you.

Just take some breaths as you allow the effect of their presence to land in your body now and start to get very curious about the specific sensations you notice in particular places in your body in their presence.

And now imagine them getting closer to you and notice how these sensations amplify.

So make a mental note now what are the sensations that you feel in their presence?

Is it tightening or tension somewhere perhaps?

Where in your body are you feeling these sensations?

Making a mental note of how you really feel the body never lies.

That's why I prefer to do these body checks instead of talking about things.

What are you really feeling in this person's presence?

And so having this bookmark of body sensations in your mind now.

Ask your psyche to show you when is the first time in your life that you felt these body sensations.

Either the exact ones or a similar constellation of sensation.

And just go with the first thing that comes up for you.

Taking a deep breath.

And now feeling yourself as the strongest version of your current self in this scene with your younger self.

Just at a respectful distance you're not going up and hugging them or interacting with them yet you're just witnessing what's happening here.

What do you see?

This might not be a specific memory it could just be a vague feeling of being a certain age with a certain person.

Breathe as the strongest version of your adult self and just keep looking and noticing what you're seeing.

Now imagining that all other figures besides your younger self and your adult self are frozen in time so if there's anyone else in the scene they can't interact at all or move anymore and it's just you and this youngest younger version of yourself and you're looking at the younger version of yourself with so much open compassion now.

For however they're feeling,

However they're feeling is perfect even if that includes hostility toward you just breathe and accept exactly as they are.

We're going to say a few phrases of validation to them not what you want to say to them but rather mirroring what they're feeling so for example I see that you're all alone.

Or I see that you're really sad.

So taking a few moments here to validate how you see that they're feeling.

Noticing how it feels in your adult body to do this.

You might feel resistance and that's okay or it might feel good.

Just say one more phrase of validation here to them.

I see you.

If it feels nourishing you can put one or both hands on your heart as you interact with them with this vulnerable version of yourself.

Really feel what it is to be with them here witnessing and mirroring.

And we'll ask them a question now and if they don't have an answer to the question you just continue validating how they're feeling but if they give you an answer you're going to see sense and feel yourself responding to that question and the question is what do you really need?

What do you really need?

Seeing,

Sensing,

Feeling yourself meeting this need in the way that they would want you to.

The need might be to leave the situation or to get space or it might be a hug or something else.

Breathing into your body now noticing how it feels to meet this need for them.

And if there's resistance that's okay too.

Softening into whatever is here.

And if your younger self wants space from you or is actively hostile you just validate that it's okay to feel that way of course you feel that way sweetheart.

With everything you've been through of course you feel that way.

Tuning into them and feeling into is there anything else that's needed here before we transition back?

Is there anything else?

Feeling into now if they would like to come with you as you transition back.

And it's completely okay if they want to stay there if they're more comfortable staying there.

But invite them now that they can come back with you if they wish that you're not leaving them here.

I'm not leaving you here.

You can come back with me if you choose.

And placing one or both hands on your heart if that feels nourishing.

As you start to breathe and imagine that they're right here in your heart.

They're right here with you if they choose to be.

As you breathe and you're in your mind's eye start to imagine the room that you're in that's around you.

Start to feel the movement of your heart.

Start to feel the movement of your breath in your body.

Knowing that they're right here with you if they've chosen to.

And then whenever it feels right opening your eyes if they were closed and taking a few moments to let your body move you.

Looking around your space and arriving back here.

Noticing how your body's feeling now.

Knowing that you've just done some perhaps disarmingly simple but deeply deeply powerful work in integrating part of yourself.

So peace says wow huge release so many tears yeah so peace just stay with that.

Keep breathing keep staying with that release.

Knowing that I'm going to be staying for a few more minutes for 10 or 15 more minutes to help you process.

But just really stay with whatever this brings up for you this it goes very deep very fast here so.

Maybe it feels good to do some gentle rocking or getting up and walking around.

Nancy says she came back with me and I can protect her in my heart now.

I love that so much.

Yeah.

Oftentimes,

The root of our co dependent tendencies is is that we didn't have the protection that we needed.

So we learn not to feel that we learned that connection isn't safe,

Right.

It's not safe to be our whole selves,

Because we didn't get that protection early on so I totally relate.

Yeah,

Just breathing with whatever you're feeling right now.

Peace says I have a huge fear of being alone.

The pain that comes up is so deep from past grief I've experienced yeah of course it is.

Yeah,

Judy says I went back to a memory that I've done a lot of work with this was really amazing.

Yeah,

Glad to hear it.

Mariam says she's in so much pain it hurts to feel her trauma.

Yeah.

Yeah,

She has intense trauma.

And with this with this kind of shadow work that I practice.

Like I said it goes really deep really fast,

And a lot of feelings come up and I want everyone to know that you don't have to feel something all the way,

All at once.

And in fact it's counterproductive with how our nervous system works.

It's,

There's a concept called titration which is just one drop at a time that healing works best especially healing trauma.

No forcing yourself to feel at all especially with trauma.

We dip our toe in.

Yeah,

Small steps exactly Sarah like we dip our toe in with what feels like enough for the time.

Oh Laura I'm so glad that you felt safe doing this that's my highest aspiration.

Yeah,

So just looking back at some comments.

So Amy says you're collapsing inward the PTSD will never leave I feel numb and like my perception is the world is unsafe.

So I want to completely validate that the yes that is real for you right now.

Yeah.

The only thing that we can do if you feel called to to work with me a little bit Amy or anyone else that's feeling collapsed or re triggered by this is to just take some gentle movement,

I know you might feel collapsed and feeling like you can't.

Okay,

Just if you feel called just to make some gentle rocking movements.

Maybe some opening,

I'm just I don't know why I'm just intuitively Amy,

I'm just like,

And Sarah like,

Like opening your mouth and be yawning a little bit.

I'm just sitting around you looking behind you now.

Doing if it feels doable for you just a little bit of shaking a little bit of movement.

I encourage you I invite you to,

If you're feeling collapse in this or feeling re trigger.

I invite you to experiment with holding both within you right now like yes I feel like collapsing yes I experienced PTSD.

And I'm also moving.

I'm also right here.

I'm also strong.

I'm also resilient.

I can move through this,

And I can feel like collapsing at the same time.

Yeah,

I can feel like collapsing,

I can feel numb,

I can feel like nothing,

And I can move at the same time.

I want to invite you to do some postures and just experiment.

And this goes for anyone who's standing up.

I'm just taking some balance in the knee.

And this might feel like too much but I'm just going to put it out there to take some victory pose,

Just holding your arm up in victory.

Doing this even if you don't feel like it.

I don't want to force you to do anything but just knowing you can be both right.

You can feel collapsed,

And you can be brave at the same time,

You can feel collapsed and you can be victorious at the same time.

So just taking this pose and seeing what it does in your body.

And just holding it.

However long,

However long.

Let me know Amy,

Sarah,

Anyone else let me know how you're doing.

Amy says it immediately brought emotional life again.

Thank you.

I'm so glad that that helped you Amy,

And I hope that this can be a tool for you.

Sometimes I do Insight Timer Lives and in fact I'm planning on doing one in the next couple of weeks called Dance to Heal.

And if you deal with collapse,

Freeze,

PTSD,

Immobility response in your system.

If you deal with any of those,

Please come to my Dance to Heal Lives because that we do,

We do,

It's all somatic work,

It's all these poses,

It's all shaking and breathing and we roar,

We yell,

We like do all these amazing things in Dance to Heal that I've learned from my trauma teachers,

My somatic healing teachers.

So please join us for Dance to Heal when that pops up.

Irene,

I'm so glad to hear that the victory gesture helped you too.

And for those of you who are listening to this recording what the victory gesture is,

Is I'm standing up tall and I have one,

I have my dominant arm and a fist above my head.

Like you can imagine a victorious warrior in that,

In that pose.

Yeah,

We can we can help our system to gradually come out of freeze,

We really can.

And it's also gradual,

Right?

Yeah,

Yeah talking therapy doesn't tend to get us very far in terms of trauma healing.

Yeah.

Oh,

Emily,

I haven't I'm a huge fan of Brene Brown but I've never heard about her emotional flashlight concept I'd be curious about that.

And Mariam says also we ground ourselves that we are not in the same situation now I love that yeah looking around our surroundings what is different now,

I love that.

Yeah.

I remember doing that a lot with my own therapist too.

Like this is not the same person.

I'm in a different place,

Like,

So the combination of that with somatic work with inner child shadow work has that's been my magic combination for my own trauma healing and continues to be because it's ongoing right.

Yeah.

Or if you say it feels uncomfortable being your body of course it does your body hasn't been a safe place.

Of course it feels uncomfortable this is just bit by bit that we take very small steps to access comfort and safety in the body again.

As,

As most of your many of you know I have a podcast called tender revolution.

And most of the episodes are here on insight timer I just uploaded a new one last night called secrets of the walls we build or secret no secrets of the wall of our walls within something like that.

And it's not it's going to be on insight timer it's it's already on Apple and Spotify if you want to look at my podcast there.

Sarah reach out to me and I don't personally provide sessions anymore but I can recommend someone to you for sure who I actually know someone who's a somatic experiencing practitioner,

I would recommend her.

Or we do a lot of somatic work in my online programs as well.

So again go to my link tree link on my teacher profile and you can see all the stuff I do outside of insight timer.

Let's see I want to make sure that I address questions here,

Amy Do you know about polyvagal theory and I fs.

See your parts work.

Yes.

I know all of that.

Yeah,

So polyvagal theory is the foundation of all the nervous system stuff I've been sharing and internal family systems I fs parts work is,

I don't personally have training in in I fs but I've had a lot of people tell me that my work has a lot of overlap with it.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Good.

And Sarah,

You're in New Zealand but the somatic therapist I know works online so I know it's not the same as working in person with someone but,

But if you're in New Zealand maybe you can search for a somatic experiencing practitioners there to get an in person session.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Tomorrow.

Sounds like you are going through a lot of hard stuff right now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sometimes,

Sometimes this kind of work makes things harder before they get easier right because maybe we become really aware of the depths of our pain.

Right.

I know that.

I know that I learned,

Like,

Well Sarah blonde and you know Sarah blonde and the amazing Sarah blonde and Sarah blonde and talks about this a lot that when we open the heart when we do healing work.

We feel the pain that's been frozen in the heart,

As it's melting.

As we melt the frozen pain we feel it right like you feel it to heal it.

But from a trauma informed perspective.

I want to make it really clear that we should not feel all of it at once,

We need to take our time and take small steps.

And I said,

Are you a therapist,

I am not.

I'm not a traditional therapist.

I was in school for counseling psychology but I dropped out.

Nothing that I share in my work comes from my time in graduate school for counseling psychology.

Unfortunately,

I would.

There were some,

There were some nice parts of the program like learning about the legal,

Legal aspects and scope of practice and like some other things,

But I left for a reason.

Yeah.

And a lot of I actually teach a lot of psychotherapists how to do what I do so a lot of I have a practitioner training program,

And most of the people I train our licensed psychotherapists.

The pair,

The irony.

All right,

Let me make sure that I've responded to folks here.

Yeah.

All right,

I know I know that there were questions I didn't respond to and I apologize because the feed just goes so fast sometimes,

Which is great because it means that you're all engaging so much.

But,

Oh peace that's,

Thank you that's a compliment.

If you have any questions that I haven't responded to.

I do have to go in a few minutes but I would love to respond to your questions if you feel like typing them in again here.

I want to give folks some book recommendations and I'm also going to post these in our shadow work circle.

I do in a yes I have a shadow work circle the shadow work circle and insight timer is where we connect between lives so really really beautiful heart centered community there.

Catherine you say as a codependent can I be exhibiting narcissistic behaviors at times.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Absolutely,

Absolutely.

It actually is often overlapping.

So Sarah says codependent no more is a great book.

Okay,

Awesome.

I don't know that one.

Peace you say how can we befriend ourselves more or work on it.

Do my shadow work meditations here on insight timer.

They all take you back to self love loving your most vulnerable aspects and and peace I think you do already so I think you know that.

So,

Yeah,

And a great practice for befriending yourself is,

Like I said at the beginning of this live may or may not be on the recording but I said,

Throughout your day,

Land in the blue,

The blue is a term from somatic experience.

It's a term from somatic experiencing that means body sensations that signal that our needs are met,

Which is a technical term for pleasant sensations,

So noticing what feels good in your body at any given time.

If,

If it feels inaccessible to access safety or good feeling in your body which could definitely be the case for you.

Look at things in your surroundings that bring up good feelings like a flower,

Or a beautiful piece of art and just really notice how it lands in your body like how do you know that you really like that piece of art,

Is there a warmth around your heart is,

Or can you feel the aliveness or tingling and parts of you and then really holding that sensation without your mind switching to something else and having that mindfulness practice of like tuning into the blue,

Tuning into pleasant sensation your body can be a wonderful way to expand the capacity of your nervous system to hold pleasant feelings and then like what better way to befriend yourself like what kinder thing than that to do for yourself right more good feeling throughout the day.

I got into book recommendations.

Yeah.

Somebody asked,

Okay.

So Sarah says,

I have fibromyalgia chronic pain is that common with PTSD it is absolutely common.

Yes,

Sarah.

Yeah,

It's absolutely common.

I know some of you some of my regulars are also familiar with the work of Gabor Maté.

He's a great resource he's a medical doctor,

But specializes in the impact of early childhood trauma with medical conditions and his body is,

Oh,

You know him great yeah when the body says no,

So glad you know about him.

Yeah,

He's definitely one of my inspirations.

For sure.

Okay.

So,

Let's get to book recommendations and again these will be posted in the circle as well.

He also talks about addiction and trauma you're right yeah the in the realm of hungry ghosts is such a great book by him.

Yeah,

About addiction and trauma.

So,

My personal favorite books that have helped me with co dependency are the book how to be an adult by David Rico.

This is a book that I quote all the time,

David Rico is a union psychotherapist.

He has a book called how to be an adult in relationships,

But I don't actually like it as much as his book called how to be an adult,

Which is a much thinner book,

But is like,

Like gems of wisdom in every single sentence.

How to be an adult by David Rico,

Our ICH.

Oh,

Is my favorite book,

Just about.

Like,

How to be an adult in general including healing co dependency and passionate marriage by David snark snark as CH and a RCH is a classic of couples therapy.

Of course,

It applies to all kinds of emotionally committed relationships not just marriage.

But so passionate marriage is an incredible book that teaches you how to define yourself while getting closer to someone else at the same time.

How to actually use your authentic expression and personal definition to increase sexiness and connection in your relationship,

Because his whole thing David snarks whole thing is that you lose sexual charge and connection and feelings of intimacy in relationship when you overlap too much when you're codependent with someone.

When you aren't expressing your full self and actually the more differentiated you get the more sexy and connected and exciting a relationship gets.

So that book is called passionate marriage by David snark,

Sarah,

And then the last book that I would recommend that's really helped me,

Especially if the childhood dynamics that I talked about today resonated with you is called adult children of emotionally immature parents by Lindsay Gibson,

Who's a psychologist.

Adult children of emotionally immature parents.

This book is extremely validating.

Yeah.

So Catherine says I read this when you previously recommended it life changing.

Yeah,

It is,

It is Catherine I know it was for me to my therapist recommended it.

I would recommend it to almost everyone.

Because,

So again it's it's called adult children of emotionally immature parents.

Like you wouldn't know how magical it is from the title or the cover,

But it's just this magically validating book that like you just see your childhood just like written in the pages.

So,

Like especially if you felt like,

If you,

If your body just feels like,

You know,

I feel like I've been through trauma but I wasn't abused quote unquote,

You know,

Like,

I wasn't hit I wasn't like overtly obviously abused but yet your body has the sense of of unsafety and relationship and like you you feel like you experienced trauma like this book just is magical for that because it lays out exactly like the different kinds of emotionally immature parenting.

And like I was just like bam bam that's my mom,

That's my dad.

Bam and then and then she,

She talks about how those early childhood dynamics with that kind of parent results in adult symptom ology is just like magical.

Yeah.

So again like join the shadow work circle I'll put these book titles there too later today and we can do a little book club in the shadow work circle.

That would be really cool.

All right.

So I gotta go and get my toddler.

Oh,

Ben,

Who wrote the last book that's Dr.

Lindsay Gibson.

That's adult children of emotionally immature parents Dr.

Lindsay Gibson.

Yeah.

And again this will be posted in the circle and and to get to the circles,

You just go to your insight timer homepage and you're going to see a little circle icon,

And then just search for shadow work and you'll see our circle right there and you can join.

Yeah,

Yeah.

So thank you all so much.

This has been such a rich live today with all of you.

Thank you for sharing your very vulnerable personal experiences with me.

Oh Ben you say this was the best live I've ever experienced.

Thank you so much.

I'm deeply honored.

Thank you for being here and sharing that.

So so great to see all of you.

So again,

My,

My next live which I usually do lives every few weeks now I'm a toddler mom so don't have time every weekend but it's usually at this time,

Saturdays 9am Pacific.

And I usually record the lives too so I will record this and put it on my insight timer profile within the week.

So you'll find it on my teacher profile so make sure to follow me as a teacher if you haven't already.

I upload new things,

A lot.

New shadow work meditations new recordings of lives.

And then,

Hi Laura,

Not been got it.

Hi Laura.

Nice to meet you.

So,

I'm feeling like the next live I'm going to do is going to be a dance to heal because I haven't done that one in a while and it's really popular so if you resonated with the somatic work on the taking this dances and that kind of thing for for trauma healing for nervous system regulation.

Make sure to come to my next live and I can't record those because they're just so based on video.

Right.

So make sure to come that one live but I do.

Reviews

I am really getting so much from your sessions…love your energy 💖

Thank you so much for sharing so much helpful information 💓 I hope to join your Shadow work circle 🙏

This really resonates with me. I love it! The Shadow Work portion was profound. Thank you 🦋

I deeply appreciate what you’re bringing to the world. Excellent description and definition of codependence. Thank you!

Thank you. 🙏

Putting into words my chameleon like nature in different relationships as the defining feature of codependency really helped... Time to grow up and be me! 😅

🙏😊🩷

Loved the clear definition of codependency and narcissism. Really liked having a practice embedded in the talk. Thank you.

We forget and remember and this helped me to remember. Thank you Catherine so very much!🙏✨✨❤️

Quite impactful & beautifully healing🙏💝 Thank you

Appreciated your personal examples. So much resonated with me.

Wow! Everything starts making sense. Thank you so much for your wisdom and vulnerability. 💙💙💙

Very insightful and validating. Looking forward to trying some of your shadow work meditations 🫶

Thank you 😊 hit the spot I’ve been trying to scratch 💜

My 8 year old self arrived at my present day age and house with two suitcases- one with clothes and the other with Barbie’s. I’ve never thought to have her move in with me today. And it was very powerful. Everything I was feeling in my body was intense especially around my heart and lower gut. Let the healing begin 🤍🦋🤍 thank you ✨🙏✨

Thank you so much. This helped me so much. Namaste🙏🌈

So insightful and deeply healing

I am so happy that you are sharing your experience and knowledge, it is a gift. Thank you.

Just the tip of the iceberg, yet so so deep. Thank you for this work. Much gratitude. 🙏

Thank you Catherine. I'm ever so grateful for your perspective and offering opportunities for me to identify and define experiences from my childhood. Sharing just one takeaway from this recording....In the exercise I connected with my inner child and realized how confused she is. Confused by so often getting mixed messages from the adults in her life with which she heavily relied on for guidance and understanding. And I believe, that because I am here to help her with/thru the confusion, that my inner child chooses to come with me.
Love a victory pose! Surprisingly, this session's victory pose brought forward tears of relief yet proud of what I was able to uncover today. Thank you 🙏🏻🤍

There are fine distinctions to be made between when to practice compassion and when to demand others meet minimum standards of adult behavior. I am referring to the “Bagelgate” story and your reappraisal of how you acted with the boyfriend vs how you would do it today. I find it difficult to understand the right thing to do in a situation like this. 🙏🏻🙏🏻

Than you 🙏 Healing codependency is an ongoing practice for me. I really enjoyed this conversation and healing work.